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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Vampire Comparison YT Video With False Informationpage  1 2 3 4 

Smartroad 78

Posts 113
18 Apr 2021 06:55


Thorsten B wrote:

What this situation shows is the need for better structured information!

At the moment I am aware of 3 sites, apollo-core, apollo-accelerators and apollo-computer. All of which have differeing levels of information. On top of that you have thus forum and Discord.

Just some quick things I have noticed: This site has a button to order the V4 that is the old system and doesn't link to the new ordering system on the apollo-computer site. This site and apollo-computer seem to barely acknowledge the V500 and V1200 from what I can see. The only manuals I've been able to find are for the V4 and have yet to find any for the V500 and V1200.

As you say Discord is great for having a real time chat with friends, a group call if you will. But for getting support, forums make much more sense as you can have individual threads that can be easily referred to later if the same or similar question comes up later.

The wiki on apollo-accelerators should be the goto site for cores for the accelerators. The current 2.14 for V500 and 2.13rc for V1200 are impossible to find unless you know that they exist and know to ask about them. Why are they not listed on the upgrade page?

Again I want to say I am not trying to offend Gunnar or the team, it is just that the information is spread over so many sites and is sometimes not consistent. My thoughts on tidying up would be:

Apollo-accelerators should be about the accelerators. When a new core is released it should be put up there, have two sections one for stable and one for beta. Also make all cores available as EXE so that those without USB Blasters can install. The site should be gone through and any old out of date information removed or updated. The wiki can become the manuals for those products.

Apollo-core should be just the forum, I'd say the button bar at the top should just have links to apollo-computer.com and apollo-accelerators.com

Apollo-computer is the site for all information about ApolloOS the V4, V4 downloads, the 68080 and for ordering. There should be links to this site and the wiki for those using the accelerators.

Just my 2 cents on the matter, again no offence intended I love my Vampire, just passing a critical eye over the situation and trying to offer solutions to prevent it happening in the future.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5421
18 Apr 2021 07:13


I fully agree that documentation is very important.
   
And this a focus topic to us.
We recently put a huge amount of effort in writing documentation and making 1st steps pdf. Take a look at them then you will agree.
   
As you might have noticed our websites are currently in restructuring and this needs time.
The apollo-computer website EXTERNAL LINK is brand new.
Take a look at it then I hope you agree that we do put a lot effort into this too.
   
   
But lets be crystal clear here.
   
The incident with the FAST-IDE video that I complained about has a history.
   
Steve did write me emails in advance. We have direct contact not only with email but also Skype. He was asking for becoming a reseller and praised in his emails the Vampire as the best card on the market.
He tried to negotiate big discount for his coming orders.
But his request was politely turned down by us.
For the reason, that for us the direct contact to the user is very important and we believe with that this way the user will get the best support.
   
   
Right after the sales deal was turned down, Steve made a comparison video where he publically bash the Vampire card.
He benchmarked the Vampire with turned-off FASTIDE and complained how slow the IDE is and praised another product where he got a discount and got a sales deal.
   
What influenced his view on the vampire?
First day: "the best card in the world", next day "not recommended".
Was it lack of documentation or was in reality something else?




DiscreetFX Studios

Posts 89
18 Apr 2021 07:35


Itís sad people spread misinformation and I hope itís mot on purpose. The Vampire V4 is an amazing piece of kit and is reviving the Amiga market. I certainly love mine and even gave one away in a contest. Iíll be buying another one for a family member soon too.


Saladriel Amrael

Posts 160
18 Apr 2021 09:58


It is truly sad that an excellent product like the Vamp is living such issues, not only this videos, but on some Amiga communities there is a strong "Anti Vampire" mentality.
Why this? Look at the SpectrumNext project, which is very similar in concept to the Vamp, this never happened.

Don't get me wrong, I love you guys, but I think there is a bit of fault in the way you comunicate with people. I know it by experience: I do work since 26 years in the customer care section of a software house and I see everyday how it is not enough to have the best product to keep a customer happy, you also have to do a good communication job, most of all when the customer is having problems or is thinking bad things about your product.

What I see of the Apollo Team is an Excellent, even unparalleled technical know how and skillset, but I also see poor (even if with ALL THE GOOD HEART) comunication: you can't comunicate only with technical informations, customers are human beings, thus their brains also need an emphatic component when receiving informations, otherwise you will be misunderstood.
That is not your fault, you're not giving away wrong technical informations at all, but it is how the human brain works and you need to accept it and take care of that if you want your product to succeed and not attract all this unjustifyed malcontent.

Long story short, Gunnar, the advice I give you from the deepest place of my heart is to look for at least one communication skilled person (if not two or three) to integrate into your team.

Wish you all the best, guys


Michael AMike

Posts 150
18 Apr 2021 10:13


I am not accusing Retrocengo of any malicious intent, he seems one of the nice guys. But in the video he has made a fool of himself, it is obvious that he does not really know anything about the V1200 and about Amiga applications in general. 

For the Vampire team it's a good torture test, the documentation and the first use of a Vampire has to become more foolproof.



Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
18 Apr 2021 10:33


While this certain case can have history of its own,
it is possible that people will test product as they get it.

And nowhere in Vampire setup guide (manual) is stressed how fast IDE Can be turned on, how important it is or how important is to get the new cores.

Surely one can investigate if interested in product, but no reason to bash someone personally either.

So recommendation is to improve the provided information, for future cases.


Thorsten B

Posts 17
18 Apr 2021 10:53


First of all the Vampire is a good product. If it wasn't there wouldn't be so many people arguing with it.

But there's problems that could be addressed but fail because of the stubbornness mostly of Vampire Team:

Documentation and sources: There literally isn't any way to get anything in a structured way. Gunnar, you point out there's a guide/manual. Where the heck do I find it? Why do I have to search it?

Apollo OS: It might be good and it might be a future opportunity - but today it's impossible to use for accelerators.

OS in General: The Wiki states that OS3.9 was the latest OS and best classic OS to use. If that's a joke I don't get it. But I'd like to know where to get 3.9?!
I know there's beef with the Hyperion side and certain Devs in General but the latest OS clearly isn't 3.9! The install process of 3.1.4 is far from easy or self explanatory. Same goes for AmiKit! Personal preferences of Vampire Team or their beef with others are of no use for me!

Autoconf and Kickstart patches: See above! Why not make steps towards a solution for this? Every time this comes up there's no answer despite: Apollo Os is better! I cannot proof that because it certainly doesn't work as of yet.

If you want to be Apple and ignore User or critics complaints you must have a nearly perfect solution!
Gunnar, you are as much a good guy as certain OS Devs are but in opposite you tend to have a short fuse. That doesn't make you look particularly good in those situations. You should take a deep breathe and let the users do the ranting! See, I don't like the 060 crew and most their fanbase (including content creators) because its like people buying friendship! I always see pics of 060 in the making and read about "the list" and the more I read about it the less I want to be on it!

I am totally pro Vampire but address those issues without anger or dispute!


Pitteloud Stephane
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 64
18 Apr 2021 11:01


Sure, the documentation can always be improved. But see, in this case, I published a video to show that 1. "we come in peace" launch un about 55s on the V1200, and not more than 100s, and 2. that Turrican 2 work without graphic bug.

I had to do 3 easy steps to be able to demonstrate that:
Step 1: flash latest gold 2.13 available for everyone here on this same official forum:
CLICK HERE 
Step 2: burn Coffin on a CF

Step 3. turn on FastIDE in the menu "Vampire" in Coffin. I think that everybody can see this option, it's not something burried under the hood.

So, no technical skills required, problem solved without even knowing that a problem exist....

Don't forget that the Vampire is improved each time a new core is released, the product is still  cared for, exactly like the others news cards on the market.

I mean, if a reviewer do a video with a old core with only one point to proove (a specific demo that take longer than expected to launch), then someone else oriented too could do a video to show that the Warp don't connect to the internet with his wifi where the LAN work on the V1200. But it would be stupid, because we all know that the Warp guys will evenually release a update that allow the Wireless connection to work.



Thorsten B

Posts 17
18 Apr 2021 11:09


Well, how should he know that he needs to set FastIDE? It's not buried but still it's not obvious! Certainly it's nothing one needs to know out of the box!
Flash the latest Core - I wouldn't flash anything on another persons Vampire!

Why don't you guys lend a V1200 with preconfigured Card to him? Don't push people away, disarm them!


Dj Up

Posts 34
18 Apr 2021 11:17


I also noticed the video Jones put up and other videos where he also seemed like on the defensive when testing a product he`s all in on now.. When showing a sysinfo-test or something, he (without any reason at that time) went on,yeah its not vampire,but if you want a vampire get a vampire or something.. Its paraphrasing a bit here,but its out of nowhere,like I did`nt say anything,and even if I did comment his sys-testing he would`nt hear me through "youtube".. Nice to finally know the background for the sudden change Steve had in attitude towards Vampire. Thanks Gunnar.

I remember it made me realize just how divided the "Amiga-community" at large are. For me,an outsider I can see how it happened,and even understand there being different camps when it comes to m68k and ppc. I do understand people can have different opinions about things,but to stay this divided and not seeing how it serves nothing for the community at large is mind blowing to me.

It is just so much more to be gained as a whole if everyone,and every groups there are just look at what can I or we do better for our product(s) and the community in general. If that happens and everyone who loves Amiga just do that,and the big bad owner corps sitting on different rights of different parts and use most of the money they earn,in courts.. if we just let them burn.. because thats what they want.. They clearly as corporations do not care about "Amiga" as more than a part of ownership and not progress.

All the different camps need to stop making it so insanely easy for those idiotic firms to continue their divide and rule tactics. Embrace all projects that is made from heart and that shows heart in what it is. Apollo team does not need to brag about Warp-cards,but every team out there,every camp out there need to understand that "fighting" over a small marked-share means there are more options for users,and if everyone tries to do their own "inner-working" and teams only focus on good info,good communication and nice attitude; the marked could even grow.

I am proof of that. I never owned or even used Amiga "back in the days" . All I know of Amiga is learned from the last 20 years or so,and probably 90% of my knowledge is from last 3 years..
I am one "new" to the community,but atm.. its only fractions of what it could be..

Speech over /

About a newbie on youtube,which started this tread.. It could be a bashing video,but I feel it is better that if we don`t know for sure,then assume the person is like me.. Starting it,and not knowing everything about what he is testing.. Of course,I would not be silly and post a video before I have tried searching for a reason for the issues at hand,but I have many times after struggling for some time with something gone here,posted and either I got reply within short time.

I do agree with what some people here wrote,about Discord is nice option,but for most people up in age, good wiki-sites and good forums and welcoming people is first choice.

Just my two satoshis.

Now.. soon..me go to do - new core>> V4 ..


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5421
18 Apr 2021 11:18


Thorsten B wrote:

OS in General: The Wiki states that OS3.9 was the latest OS and best classic OS to use. If that's a joke I don't get it.

Very simple. This is because AMIGA OS 3.9 is the most advanced classic OS. OS 3.9 comes with a lot stuff that OS 3.1 does not have.
But we are going off topic here.
I would propose you that you come online in Discord support channel and ping me for getting more info.


James Husted

Posts 70
18 Apr 2021 11:47


I do agree that as good as you say Discord is some people myself included wont use it so proper, up to date forums and webpages is always a good backup and you cant expect everybody to use discord as I am guessing the people that wont have reasons like mine... I had some very bad cyber bullying on various channels and I decided for my own mental wellness to steer clear! of course I am not saying your channel is anything like that at all if anything all I hear is good things about how much of a community you have made with it!


Pitteloud Stephane
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 64
18 Apr 2021 13:34


Thorsten B wrote:

Well, how should he know that he needs to set FastIDE? It's not buried but still it's not obvious! Certainly it's nothing one needs to know out of the box!

How? Well,exactly the same way the maker of the video found out how to push the 060 on the Warp further than 50 Mhz: with the help of the manual.

Note that every V1200 comme with a small manual (1 A4 page). In this manual, you will find this: "The software installation being in constant evolution, please visit wiki.apollo-accelerators.com to learn how to install the graphics driver and the microSD driver. You will also find the latest core version, a FAQ, an updated compatibility list and much more".

Then, I assume that if someone want to install his new card, he will go to "wiki.apollo-accelerators.com" in his web browser.

There, he will find under "peripherals" this sentence: "This interface supports ďFast IDEĒ, with PIO modes from 0 (slowest) to 6 (fastest).  (...) To enable ďFast IDEĒ, please see VControl IDESPEED".

the other option is to use Coffin, where there is  a pulldown menu where the option"fastIDE" are. I

If this is too complex,Then I'm wondering how the author of this video pushed his Warp 060 at 105 Mhz, even if he reveived an already installed CF. Because by default, the CPU is at 50 Mhz. And CS lab is right do do it this way. We do exactly the same with the IDE.

So to summarise: explain me how you can find ok that on the Warp 060 you have to change in a programm the frequencie of the CPU, where you don't find ok to have to choose a menu item under Coffin to activate the Fast IDE on the V1200? In my opinion, CS-lab and we do right there, it's up to the user to activate the fast option, to ensure compatibility. On the Warp, it's because all 060 can run at 50, but not all can cope with 105 Mhz. On the V1200, its because all media can cope with the regular speed, but only CF and some others good devices can cope with the fast option.



Thorsten B

Posts 17
18 Apr 2021 15:02


I think you have a misunderstanding. The 060 was offered by the 060 Team preconfigured with 100Mhz. Even if told otherwise I'd bet it was like that.  Believe my, they will have helped him through all hassles if there were any!
The Vampire came assembled from an unknown User. I don't think he sent him a single Page with a Manual.

Solution: Offer him a setup to test again and you're good to go!

It's not about what I find ok or what not. Are you really arguing with a customer about the current state of information which in fact is questionable?


Pitteloud Stephane
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 64
18 Apr 2021 15:23


Thorsten B wrote:

  I think you have a misunderstanding. The 060 was offered by the 060 Team preconfigured with 100Mhz.
 

  You have to change the settings in the software to change the frequence. From the factory, the Warp is at 50 Mhz. And this is ok, as it's the only way to be sure that the machine boot. Mine was delivered configured at 50 Mhz.  And the author of the video is aware, how to change that:  EXTERNAL LINK 
 
Believe my, they will have helped him
 
 

  just like the vampire team would have done if he'd just asked.
 
  Just to be clear: the C-lab team is great, they do an exceptional job, and I love what they do. It is not them that we are talking about here, but the fact that the author of the video takes care to configure the warp correctly when he does not do it on the V1200, whereas the level of difficulty is exactly the same.
 
  All the rest is irrelevant.
 


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
18 Apr 2021 16:08


Pitteloud Stephane wrote:

      Just to be clear: the C-lab team is great, they do an exceptional job, and I love what they do. It is not them that we are talking about here, but the fact that the author of the video takes care to configure the warp correctly when he does not do it on the V1200, whereas the level of difficulty is exactly the same.
      All the rest is irrelevant.
   

   
    While this certainly is true, Warp060 is a great product that comes with one big limiting factor - sourcing good 060 on your own.
   
    In truth seems classic cards are much more plug and play friendly due to their nature as opposed to FPGA systems and accelerators like Vampire.
   
    I hope in year or two V2s will come to the point they are shipped with very mature core  and even fastIDE enabled by default for ApolloOS on its supplied SD Card (similar to V4)with big fat disclaimer that if one attaches hard drives etc. fast ide can be turned off (and how)
   
    Surely, Vamps will be similarly friendly once archiving level of maturity or one day if ASIC versions arrive. Everything seems like experimental voyage "in between": much is achievable, but takes more preparation and reading forehand.
   
    Point is: supplying most of "plug and play" easy to set up system is best for end users and testers alike. And what I love about V4 roadmap is that I see exactly that. Hoping similar love is in plan for V2 too.
   
    Its not only what users could do better, its always what producers and maintainers could do better to help first.
 
  Surely, if something that is known not to work on Vampire is used for testing and to not recommend it because of only that, that can be a bit malicious. What can I see from video is that he flushed latest core he could get as EXE, installed latest Coffin and tried running software there (abeit, presented software like Quake have poor results).

Pitteloud Stephane wrote:

  Note that every V1200 comme with a small manual (1 A4 page). In this manual, you will find this: "The software installation being in constant evolution, please visit wiki.apollo-accelerators.com to learn how to install the graphics driver and the microSD driver. You will also find the latest core version, a FAQ, an updated compatibility list and much more".

By doing exactly that at http://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/vampire:v1200-v2:updates one could get
7950 2.13 as EXE and 7987 only as JIC. If one does not have Blaster, latest installable would be 2.13


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5421
18 Apr 2021 16:27


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

In truth seems classic cards are much more plug and play friendly due
..

I think you completely misunderstand what the people here discussed.

What Keckschen and Stephane are saying is
that the comparison was screwed and biased and unfair.

1) The Vampire system was used without proper setup, and no effort was done to fix this. Not the vendor asked, not the manual read.

2) But the Warp came pre-configured with instructions
for this test from the vendor all setup in advance for this test.

This us how I read this.
Maybe you reread their post and tell me if you understand this.


Kamelito Loveless

Posts 198
18 Apr 2021 21:58


Well someone experienced using a V1200 could just make a video with  the games/demos he was having issues with and link it to itís video to clear things up.


Nikos Pagonis

Posts 93
18 Apr 2021 22:50


Kamelito Loveless wrote:

Well someone experienced using a V1200 could just make a video with  the games/demos he was having issues with and link it to it's video to clear things up.

I uploaded a video yesterday on Discord loading the WCIP Demo where in his video the V1200 needed 1.45 minutes to load and on my V1200 it took exactly the same time as his Warp card (52-53 seconds). I am not a youtuber or smg just a regular guy who owns a V1200. I did that out of curiosity cause i havent had any issues with my Vampire since i bought it. Allien Breed 3D plays fine as well.

What annoyed me in his video was the way he was laughing at V1200 results which together with the fact that he knew what was coming in the video (from his reactions) made it obvious that he was doing it on purpose. I saw many videos of his before where he tests other accelerators but he didnt laugh or smg. He was just stating the outcomes. Which would have been fine if he did that yesterday.


DiscreetFX Studios

Posts 89
19 Apr 2021 03:10


Why does this review kind of remind me of when I first got my Amiga 500 and 286íPC owning skeptics told me how wrong I was to get an Amiga instead of a IBM compatible PC. Then they got all defensive when I discussed that I donít want to run spreadsheets and MSDOS. I want to do picture.add video capture  and genlocking. They were completely lost. The 286 did not meet my needs and these 286í owners had no concept what an Amiga was. Maybe this reviewer had no concept of what a Vampire is. Also I think people will sometimes run into problems running Amiga 1200 machines made in 1992. Sure the A1200 was great but how long can a machine be reliable thatís getting so very old. The reviewer should look at a V4 before he starts laughing at a Vampire.

I was so very excited when I went to an Amiga show and.Commodore announced they were working on a AAA chipset Amiga. Then I was very sad when Commode went out of business and no AAA Amiga would ever come. That AAA chipset Amiga is finally here and itís called the Vampire V4.

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