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Linux On 68Kpage  1 2 

Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5474
20 May 2021 10:11


Regarding the topics about Linux on 68k.

While we are all Amiga fans by heart, not all of us have the in depth Linux background to understand what is technically feasibly and what not.

I believe that its very important to provide clear facts for the people, so that everybody can have reasonable expectations.

It is absolutely clear that running graphical Linux desktops with KDE/ Gnome and using applications like Firefox/ Open-Office are absolutely not realistic options on Amiga.
I believe that giving users false hopes and unrealistic promises will not help anyone.

Lets be crystal clear here:
Yes we all would like to use modern Webbrowsers on Amiga and we all would like to have Firefox - but this is not realistic.
And running Linux on 68K in the hope to have this way a working Firefox is not feasible.




Gerardo G.

Posts 54
20 May 2021 20:13


Totally agree... This post was really needed.

Kudos to you, Gunnar.


Saladriel Amrael

Posts 161
26 May 2021 08:40


Amen to that


NoXLar - DemoSceneLover

Posts 31
26 May 2021 12:31


ID Software said Doom on Amiga 68k was not possible

"quote"

The amiga is not powerfull enough to run DOOM. It takes the full
speed of a 68040 to play the game properly even if you have a chunky
pixel mode in hardware. Having to convert to bit planes would kill
it even on the fastest amiga hardware, not to mention the effect it
would have on the majority of the amiga base.

John Carmack

not to talk about quake not long after.. 

my point is, let the users do what they want, everyone has it's own goals, it might fail, it might run, or nothing happens.. maybe new ideas will come from it, who knows.
So just let them have fun trying the impossible, it's what Amiga is all about



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5474
26 May 2021 12:46


noXLar -  DemoSceneLover wrote:

  my point is, let the users do what they want,
 

Of course every user can do what he want.

You can use your Amiga as surfboard,
or you can try jump out of a plane and use the Amiga as parachute. This both might work! ;-)
 
But please do this on your own. Do not speak about this here before!
Do not give promises that can be understood that Firefox will work and then people can watch Netflix on Amiga.
 
 
The point is not that people try stupid stuff.
The point is giving crazy promises which mislead others.
 


David Pesce

Posts 12
26 May 2021 16:27


I agree, there is no point in running a linux on Vampire. But there is an interest to make porting Linux applications easier. What is missing is an X server optimized for the saga chipset and able to display directly on the workbench like AmiCygnix under AOS4.


Marco Bruines

Posts 23
26 May 2021 19:09


I gave it a try once on my a4000t/060 back in the day that dial-up and pentium 1 pc's where still common... It workt, for the basic stuff, but thats it. Next day it was time to put my os 3.1 installation back to get the snappy performance i used to have.

By the way, does it void the warenty of a Vampire v4 when trying to use it as a paracute ;)




Kamelito Loveless

Posts 206
27 May 2021 09:44


Well former Amiga Wizard Dale Luck wrote an X Window for Amiga back then in his company GfxBase that is enough to me. Linux is mostly for servers.


Nick Fellows

Posts 111
27 May 2021 10:51


quit repeating the line "Linux is mostly for servers."

Linux is for Mobile Phones, Routers , Tablets, E-Readers, Laptops
and Desktops. For embedded devices , for TV's for Printers , fridges , and single board computers such as the raspberry pi. Its used by movie studios for render farms, just as the Amiga was used back in the day.

Linux is ubiquitous. Were not citing 90s slashdot memes anymore things have moved on.



Nick Fellows

Posts 111
27 May 2021 11:07


I think what people are after is not complete dismissal of the topic. While it is your decision to make in not supporting it - im fine with that especially given you efforts with GCC and AROS.

Given the massive wealth of open source software we could leverage were going to have to start porting open source linux apps to vampire and the only way to make that happen is to attract those kinds of developers. Im one.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5474
27 May 2021 11:10


nick fellows wrote:

Linux is ubiquitous.

This is true.

I believe the point of this thread is about something else.

I think we talk about that Apollo-OS and Amiga OS are swift and slim operating systems which allow you to do a lot with a light system.
Linux is not swift and not light.

We talk about that is not realistic for Amiga users to dream about using Firefox.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5474
27 May 2021 11:13


nick fellows wrote:

Given the massive wealth of open source software we could leverage were going to have to start porting open source linux apps to vampire

Porting Firefox is a totally unrealistic scenario.
Not only because this is a huge amount of work,
but also because Firefox needs more CPU and memory resources than which are available.




Nick Fellows

Posts 111
27 May 2021 11:34


In an ideal world , how do you see the "Future" of Amiga ? Personally I can see that your work with AROS and GCC shows that you understand that developing AROS is a good way to secure it.

Is the Future of the Amiga an expensive way to play retro games or is the Future of Amiga something that can be a daily driver?

Does the Future of Amiga embrace alternatives to Vampire or does it exclude ?

For me i want to use my Amiga in a creative way again but with more of the bells and whistles we've become used to in the dominant platforms.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5474
27 May 2021 11:44


nick fellows wrote:

In an ideal world , how do you see the "Future" of Amiga ?

 
I think you talk about complete different topics than this thread here.
 
 
The topic of the thread was to prevent users getting disappointed,
by "fake news" that people can use Firefox on Amiga.
 
I think its important to be clear and realistic.

In my opinion the previous Linux threads was a mix of fake news and facts, which is very dangerous.

- its correct that text based Linux runs OK on Amiga
- its correct that there are Firefox is a modern webbrowser which can show all websites well.

Mixing both topics up in one posts was imho very misleading and misleading users help no one.



Nick Fellows

Posts 111
27 May 2021 11:54


I've never seen anyone claim that people can use Firefox on Amiga - where is this "fake news" ?

The thread is called "Linux On 68k" - now i admit i went off topic here about the Future of the Amiga. Perhaps that would be a good thread to create - id like discussion in this area.

My original interjection was simply to point out that is likely certain apps people really want rather than a Linux kernel. I agree something like Firefox is a tall order.

( Side Note : Firefox is not a Linux Specific App , it runs on many different operating systems. In fact the heritage of Firefox goes back to Netscape / Mozilla and there were 68k versions of those. )


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5474
27 May 2021 11:59


nick fellows wrote:

( Side Note : Firefox is not a Linux Specific App , it runs on many different operating systems. In fact the heritage of Firefox goes back to Netscape / Mozilla and there were 68k versions of those. )

voila again, a post which can mislead users.

Please try to post more responsable!


Nick Fellows

Posts 111
27 May 2021 12:24


fair comment. There were no versions of Firefox or Mozilla that ran on Amiga.


Kamelito Loveless

Posts 206
27 May 2021 19:30


I wonder what are the advantages of running Linux on an Amiga…? If this is just to port Linux apps this is nonsense as more affordable computers can do better.
Amiga users want Amiga applications not bloated Linux apps. We’ll see in ten years if this change, but frankly what are the percentage of Amigans using NG computers that ran Linux? So you can imagine the benefit on 68k.


Gerardo G.

Posts 54
27 May 2021 20:38


Thinking on Linux running on any system is based on several fallacies: It solves all problems, it is free and open-sourced, it is fast!, light! and easy to port to!, etc... Of course this is not true, just open-source marketing :)
 
  For web development, Linux is the king, both on servers and desktop. It is incredibly powerful stable and flexible. Not using it can be a big mistake on your project. But try to use it professionally with audio, video, photos... Finally you will ever turn on your Mac after several hours trying to get the things done on Linux.
 
  Turning on my Amiga it is just a funny hobby. I expect to see better Amiga compatible hardware, different AmigaOS-compatible OSes and several enhacements, but keeping what makes Amiga different from all the “trash” we use daily.


M Rickan

Posts 177
28 May 2021 01:26


Gerardo González-Trejo wrote:

Turning on my Amiga it is just a funny hobby. I expect to see better Amiga compatible hardware, different AmigaOS-compatible OSes and several enhacements, but keeping what makes Amiga different from all the “trash” we use daily.

This is precisely the type of argument that makes me cringe about the Amiga community.

It's clear there is a camp that wants to preserve the status quo and reminisce about the good old days. And there are lots of options to ensure that you can relive those fond memories for years to come.

But technology evolves and becomes more affordable.

There was a time when colour displays, stereo sound and preemptive multitasking were concepts that were unrealistic and dare we say... inappropriate?

If an option came out tomorrow that offered 100x the power of the current Vampire, there would still be naysayers who would insist that a modern Amiga would be sacrilege.

Oh the irony.



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