Overview Features Coding Performance Forum Downloads Products OrderV4 Contact

Welcome to the Apollo Forum

This forum is for people interested in the APOLLO CPU.
Please read the forum usage manual.



All TopicsNewsPerformanceGamesDemosApolloVampireAROSWorkbenchATARIReleases
Information about the Apollo CPU and FPU.

Eab User Accusing AC Team of Stealing IPpage  1 2 3 4 

Ron Valen
(Needs Verification)
Posts 12/ 2
05 Oct 2020 23:39


For open-source FPGA 68K, it's better with Minimig's FPGA 68K with about 68030 at 50Mhz performance instead of FPGA Coldfire V1 (68HC08 replacement).




Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5419
06 Oct 2020 09:53


People have the choice:



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5419
06 Oct 2020 13:22


Regarding the false accusations on EAB.
   
In my experience the Amiga fans are great people.
   
Nevertheless in the current Amiga scene are people which not agree with our goal to revive Amiga or which are driven by jealousy. Some of these people make lawsuits, blackmail Amiga resellers to prevent them selling some products and use Amiga forums to post slanderish and wrong stuff.
These people try hard to hurt some project and use every chance to prevent others from having success.
Some of the haters attack the Vampire, but also other projects are often attacked.
 
   
  In my experience that fact that many Amiga forums not well moderate, gives these haters the possibility to use the internet to post fake-news, wrong claims, hate and slander.
 


Kamelito Loveless

Posts 198
06 Oct 2020 17:22


I hope the recent post Iíve seen there is not true.


Roy Gillotti

Posts 474
06 Oct 2020 17:31


Kamelito Loveless wrote:

      I hope the recent post Iíve seen there is not true.
     

      Hard to say when the EAB moderators purposely lock the threads before anyone official can respond to the accusations.
   
    I saw one thread of a tactless joke made by gunnar on Discord that makes a certain person that keeps attacking this project as some kind of victim, yet he is smearing Gunnar's and others reputation by posting it on EAB. when in reality it's just a slightly inappropriate joke made by the members.

God I hate the EAB forum, It's just not a healthy forum to be on.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5419
06 Oct 2020 18:09


Roy Gillotti wrote:

God I hate the EAB forum, It's just not a healthy forum to be on.

 
Some Amiga forum are not moderated well / or at all today.
My experience is that reporting slander and wrong accusations to moderations is pointless.  As long moderators only react with "free-speech" this can not improve.
 
With EAB I have the impression that slander threads are sometimes locked after a while. But the people behind this can just post another such thread when they like.
If you look carefully in the forums then you can find hundred such slantering threats  - and I think this is the goal of these haters.
 
They have to much time at their hand and use the internet to bombard projects  which they not like, with hundreds of slantering / hate / fake-news posts.


Amiga Noob

Posts 33
07 Oct 2020 04:09


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Roy Gillotti wrote:

  God I hate the EAB forum, It's just not a healthy forum to be on.
 

   
  Some Amiga forum are not moderated well / or at all today.
  My experience is that reporting slander and wrong accusations to moderations is pointless.  As long moderators only react with "free-speech" this can not improve.
   
  With EAB I have the impression that slander threads are sometimes locked after a while. But the people behind this can just post another such thread when they like.
  If you look carefully in the forums then you can find hundred such slantering threats  - and I think this is the goal of these haters.
 
  They have to much time at their hand and use the internet to bombard projects  which they not like, with hundreds of slantering / hate / fake-news posts.

Any chance of promoting Vampire outside of Amiga Scene? I think low level programmers might be interested in this platform. I know one community who are a bit saddened by the current state of OS's/Hardware/Software and might be interested in this platform.

I was not born yet when Amiga came out and just recently become interested in Amiga due to some programmers in Handmade Community giving praise to the Amiga. I am planning to order a V4 next year and probably develop a software on it(Don't have the money right now). Have a look at the community EXTERNAL LINK  EXTERNAL LINK 
I think having more young people who are low level programmers or even just programmers would benefit Vampire. Most of the current Amiga programmers seems to be more interested in retro stuff instead of next gen Amiga but more software is needed for Vampire to prosper(Only few are specifically targeting the Vampire platform as far as I've seen). So I think reaching out to other communities might be good.


Saladriel Amrael

Posts 160
07 Oct 2020 07:34


Aldrin O. wrote:

 
  Any chance of promoting Vampire outside of Amiga Scene? I think low level programmers might be interested in this platform. I know one community who are a bit saddened by the current state of OS's/Hardware/Software and might be interested in this platform.
 

Wit all the current trend of Pixel-Art/Retro-Like gaming galore the V4 Stand Alone could be promoted to be a platform created with that very experience in mind (And that's true, even if it is only part of the truth), with the bonus of being HW compatible with a true retrogaming machine: the Amiga 68K

All we need is a powerful/Easy to learn development tool/language to grab the attention of new gen bedroom coders




Amiga Noob

Posts 33
07 Oct 2020 09:39


Saladriel Amrael wrote:

 
Aldrin O. wrote:

   
    Any chance of promoting Vampire outside of Amiga Scene? I think low level programmers might be interested in this platform. I know one community who are a bit saddened by the current state of OS's/Hardware/Software and might be interested in this platform.
   
 
 

 
  Wit all the current trend of Pixel-Art/Retro-Like gaming galore the V4 Stand Alone could be promoted to be a platform created with that very experience in mind (And that's true, even if it is only part of the truth), with the bonus of being HW compatible with a true retrogaming machine: the Amiga 68K
 
  All we need is a powerful/Easy to learn development tool/language to grab the attention of new gen bedroom coders
 
 
 

 
  That's what I have in mind in terms of game software. Obviously Vampire at its current state cannot compete with AAA games on NextGenConsoles/ModernPC's, however it probably could target the indie game market. There seems to be a trend going on for pixel art games called "Hi-bit era" EXTERNAL LINK 
  If it's possible for these games(Pixel art with modern features, like dynamic lighting, dynamic shadow, not being limited by colors, resolution, etc.) to be easily implemented on a Vampire then it would definitely be a good platform for current pixel art indie games. However, problem is as you say needing a tool for these developers because most of them are used to GameEngine tools like GameMaker,Unity,Godot, etc. and not really programming assembly. I know there are tools for Amiga like AMOS but that's for the old Amigas, in which games are limited by the machine, not specifically for a Vampire that can enable games like Hi-bit(Can someone confirm if its possible for hi-bit games to be implemented on a Vampire?)
 
  That's why I recommend the low/mid-level programmers(Programmers who at least can program in C and read assembly), that will possibly make the tools to enable other high-level programmers.
 
  Or just encourage these high-level programmers to program in assembly and that coding in assembly on Vampire is easier/simple compared to programming in GameMaker and the like.
 
  With regards to other commonly used software, Vampire's only problem will probably be on multimedia apps and a web browser(?).
 
  I know Vampire can now play mpeg videos however looking at codecs used on Youtube, some are now using AV1 video codec in which I read will need more power to encode/decode than VP9 video codec. Maybe instead of targeting Youtube, create another Youtube like platform for Vampire in which a CDXL-like file format is used for video that uses the SAGA chipset(?) I got the idea from a program called AGABlaster EXTERNAL LINK however this program targets AGA Amiga instead of Vampire so maybe someone could program a SAGABlaster? I feel like I'm saying something unrealistic here LOL but I'm just throwing out ideas.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 684
07 Oct 2020 09:46


regarding amos I do not see the problem
 
  amos is currently updated to full support AGA (including HAM8)
 
  this often makes no sense with just 2 MB Chipram and 68020 and the low speed of the data bus on A1200 but it indeed makes more sense on something like V4 with 8 MB Chipram (512 MB total) and the higher processor power so even without suuporting SAGA special features you can already do much more.
 
  Alternative (a bit more complicated to learn) you can also use amiblitz (what is also in development currently).
 
  Web browser will always be a problem. There is OWB on Aros (that was the newest version) but only available on X86 and I am not sure how difficult it would be to get it working on 68k. Also it is getting old now too (years old already making it less and less useful). Additional webpages today are needing lots of resources like processor power and lots of RAM, 512 MB is minimum, really minimum in todays terms. The only system with that would be V4.

My personal view is, Vampire is no option as working horse to do f.e. web browsing and online banking but a retro/fun system. And of course there is a chance to get new games and small applications. Not more, not less.


Amiga Noob

Posts 33
07 Oct 2020 10:32


Well as long as the game developer is not limited by the machines power, all is good. But having a tool that enables Vampires hardware features will help extend the game design capabilities I think. So I think V4 will be the perfect platform, powerful enough that doesn't limit the game designers ideas, at least for pixel art games, and yet also simple/easy to program in assembly(That's how Vampire was marketed to me by watching AmigaBill show and Italia Interview lol).

Well the web browser thing will definitely be a problem and probably the main problem for the Apollo Team. If Apollo Team is serious about what they meant by world domination and not meant as a joke, they would have to address the web browser thing since most people today, including me, use web browsers day to day. I mean most people today are satisfied with just using ChromiumOS and that OS is mostly a web browser.


Saladriel Amrael

Posts 160
07 Oct 2020 10:39


Aldrin O. wrote:

(Can someone confirm if its possible for hi-bit games to be implemented on a Vampire?)
 

Well, some hi-bit games heavily use modern lighting/transformation effects to the pixellated GFX, so maybe these extremes are out of question.

But I can see games like Hydorah, Maldita Castilla, Sword & Sworcery, Limbo, The Last Station, Z-Exemplar, Super Meat Boy, EON of Sands and the like more than feasable on a machine like the V4




Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 684
07 Oct 2020 10:51


I do not know where you read "world domination" as goal from Apollo team but I am sure it was meant as joke.

Vampire is a nice niche product to revive the amiga market but "world domination" (being mainstream again and compete with the big platforms) is completely unrealistic. Yes web browsing is today the most important what people do as everyday task but that is unrealistic today (in todays terms) on a hardware like vampire.


Saladriel Amrael

Posts 160
07 Oct 2020 10:57


I would like to add to Olaf's statement that if I would ever put my hands on a V4 I would never expect it to act like a normal PC and be able to browse the web and view streaming videos

To me the aim of the project has been clearly stated since it was still called NATAMI and that's all what I'd want from such a machine

Thinking otherwise would be completely unrealistic by a mere techincal point of view.



Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 684
07 Oct 2020 11:04


Saladriel Amrael wrote:

Aldrin O. wrote:

  (Can someone confirm if its possible for hi-bit games to be implemented on a Vampire?)
   
 

 
  Well, some hi-bit games heavily use modern lighting/transformation effects to the pixellated GFX, so maybe these extremes are out of question.
 
  But I can see games like Hydorah, Maldita Castilla, Sword & Sworcery, Limbo, The Last Station, Z-Exemplar, Super Meat Boy, EON of Sands and the like more than feasable on a machine like the V4
 
 
 

Pentium class games are possible. Certainly not newest games available. Requirements (partly) for new PC games are 8 GB RAM, i5 (better i7) and graphic card (at least 1 GB).



Saladriel Amrael

Posts 160
07 Oct 2020 11:13


In some cases it depends only by the fact the 8/16Bit like GFX is rendered through modern engines and passes through Direct-X

If reverse-engineered, some games can run on 16/32bit era HW.
Take for example Limbo: somebody recreated a couple of areas on a C64.
I can see no reasons why V4 could not handle the games I mentioned


Amiga Noob

Posts 33
07 Oct 2020 11:20


Saladriel Amrael wrote:

Aldrin O. wrote:

  (Can someone confirm if its possible for hi-bit games to be implemented on a Vampire?)
   
 

 
  Well, some hi-bit games heavily use modern lighting/transformation effects to the pixellated GFX, so maybe these extremes are out of question.

Well that's a bit of a bummer... Getting the hi-bit market would be huge for Vampire. Maybe with the upcoming 3d acceleration it will be possible?

I was thinking of a marketing statement for Vampire along the lines of "A platform for your Hi-Bit games, where by using SAGA+68080, it is easy to program in low level, easier than using tools like GameMaker, etc.(Might be overstating here), with the added benefit that by programming low-level you have the flexibility to implement your game ideas, not being limited by tools". I think that statement would attract indie developers, especially low-level indie developers lol.

Regarding world domination, I heard it from an interview of Gunnar on Vampire Italia. What I thought he meant by that is overthrowing the current domination of x86(Windows, Linux) and maybe even ARM(Smartphones).

I think that while modern PC are very powerful compared to V4. Maybe an advantage that a Vampire has in general is its simplicity. Simplicity of the computer is what I got from the interview by Gunnar on AmigaBill and Vampire Italia. I know there are programmers who are are angry by how complex it is to interface with Windows/Linux, how x86 instruction set is too complex. How programming on a GPU is too complex. So maybe AmigaOS/AROS, 68k assembly, SAGA and upcoming 3d acceleration could be a good platform for them as long as the application doesn't need too much power.

Maybe we are in a point now anyway that we don't need too much power. Most people today just use smartphones without using a desktop computer




Amiga Noob

Posts 33
07 Oct 2020 11:29


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

Yes web browsing is today the most important what people do as everyday task but that is unrealistic today (in todays terms) on a hardware like vampire.

Yeah, wonder how they will solve this. It might be more realistic to support or create another platform besides the web since the web is just too power hungry and security unfriendly.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 684
07 Oct 2020 11:34


modern smartphones have hardware like a PC a couple of years ago. Most Indy developers certainly use development environments that hide the low-level stuff and make it easier to support different platforms. Example is the known Unity (there are plenty of, both open source and commercial). Bigger companies have their own inhouse engine. If I develop games for living amiga certainly would be of no interest. We should be realistic here.


Saladriel Amrael

Posts 160
07 Oct 2020 11:36


Yes, but Smartphones are orders of magnitude more powerful than a V4, a PS2 or a PentiumIII PC.

I think the role you described for V4 is, as for today, unrealistic.

The niche I see it for is 8-Early32 bit era modern gaming, meaning you can develop for it games that were plausible from early '80s to late '90s, mix-matching the vibes of both eras and having a native DIGITAL-VIDEO output.
And that's good, looking at current days gaming trends


posts 64page  1 2 3 4