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Carlos Milán

Posts 95
17 May 2021 22:36


Oh, so you successfully boot the kernel and launch de Debían installer. That's already an achievement. I am curious, how much time it takes on the 060? On a 030 it is about 7 minutes.

Regarding the need of a CD ROM media for installation, it actually depends on which kernel image you are using. Normal install kernel image will look for removable drives such as CD drives or Internet. But if you use the hdmedia kernel image then you can use a partition of your harddisk to install the files. I never tried hdmedia images on the Amiga, so I don't know if they play nice with FFS or you need ext2/3/4. You should be able to find the hdmedia image in the CD image.



Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
17 May 2021 23:09


Experience on A1-x1000
     
      Netinstallers are great. You get all the recent files during install and they are small enough to be executed easily and from any media computer might boot.
     
      Downsides using with m68k might be slower net connection and reliability of m68k repos.
     
      Anyway I am glad to hear of half-success and hope kernel can be V2 and V4SA patched, or we can have some MMU 68k mode, even a bit slower.
   
 
Andy Hearn wrote:

      anyway. the CDROM device mount fails, so it asks me what device to use to find the optical drive so i have the chance to say "/dev/hdb" but that fails. not sure if it fails because it is actually looking for media that isn't there - i don't know what media to mount, as the full 150meg net-installer CD is available where i'm launching ... unless amiboot - once it's through launching the kernal, doesn't know about amiga FFS partitions...?
      that's what i'm thinking, so probably have to burn that Deb10 netinstaller ISO to a CD? can't i have it on a drive partition somewhere? that'd make life much easier...
   

   
    Once netinstaller launches, rest of CD is there for decoration.
    Linux does not see Amiga FFS without additional files.
   
    Can you install it to EXT4 formatted partition during install (prepare empty partition in HD ToolboX), select it in Linux install.
 
 
Andy Hearn wrote:
 
    i have a blue screen with ascii menus on it, and i get through selecting the keyboard type, and the country, then it looks for a CDROM drive - this is where it fails.
      i can see that it finds the IDE drives, but it assigns /dev/hdb to the optical drive device it finds at unit 1 on the A4000's IDE port.
      I can also see that it finds 5 auto-config things, which are my zorro cards and CPU board - but it doesn't really seem to go into detail what it's found and if those are assigned to any devices.
   

   
    All recognized devices will be supported, SCSI support on Amiga is strange for PC standards Linux is used to.
   
    IDe hard drive is found, you have where to install.


Andy Hearn

Posts 365
18 May 2021 10:12


good stuff thanks guys, ok, so i'll burn an ISO and try a CD - i'm not holding much hope for that if i'm honest.
otherwise i'll see what i can do to get a linux partition setup and files copied over i guess?

@Carlos, i'll time it from the point where i hit enter the second time to launch amiboot and stop the clock when i get to the bedootstrap screen - but yeah, 7minutes sounds about right. my first learning expirience was "just leave it alone" and dont reboot because you think it's crashed because you've had a blank screen for a little while... :D

it may be a bit of time till i get to play with my A4k, as i've cleared the decks for my rdesktop testing. i need a big desk where i can have a permanent amiga setup... a workbench of some description...


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5418
18 May 2021 11:49


I had Debian on my 4K in the old days.
But it ran very slow .. like frozen molasses.

Linux on Amiga was for me much to slow, to be usefull.


Andy Hearn

Posts 365
18 May 2021 13:08


well, hoping the 060 can make it bearable. just want to see if Libre office can run... :)

but yeah, i hear you Gunnar, this isn't going to be a daily driver by any stretch. already loosing out on USB, faster ethernet, and anything potential on the scsi bus...

then yes, there is the performance aspect. i'm not expecting miracles :D but am curious...


Edgar Fink

Posts 36
18 May 2021 14:45


Andy, have you considered trying NetBSD instead? I've at least succesfully installed it on UAE at some point, which was fun. :)

NetBSD actively supports m68k and even fixed some bugs in the latest release:

EXTERNAL LINK 



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5418
18 May 2021 19:14


Andy Hearn wrote:

well, hoping the 060 can make it bearable. just want to see if Libre office can run... :)

LOL nice joke


Carlos Milán

Posts 95
18 May 2021 19:28


I just mounted the Debian 10 m68k image and it was not about the Linux kernel image, but the initrd. Linux kernel image is just one, under the install/kernels directory (4.16, quite recent!). Then you have the cdrom, hd-media and nativehd initrd images that are the ones that enable you to install from different devices. I do not remember the difference between hd-media and nativehd.

About Linux on the Amiga, I concur it is pure curiosity, and that a Raspberry Pi will run it hundred times faster for a ridiculous price. But for me, it is just the geekness factor of running a current mainstream operating system on the Amiga, pretty much we like running Doom or Quake, or the scene get credit from Linus Torvalds himself: EXTERNAL LINK 
NetBSD is indeed, way better supported on Amiga than Linux, it has Tier II support, that is not bad considering Amiga age; but again, it is pure curiosity.

In any case, the future is AROS; this thread is geekness :)


Carlos Milán

Posts 95
18 May 2021 19:32


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Andy Hearn wrote:

  well, hoping the 060 can make it bearable. just want to see if Libre office can run... :)
 

 
  LOL nice joke

Indeed, *maybe* you make it run, but I doubt it will be usable. I used to run StarOffice 5.2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarOffice#StarOffice_5) in a Pentium, and I think it would do fine on a 060; the experience is very similar to Microsoft Office 97... but StarOffice only supported i386 and SPARC. No m68k love there :)


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
19 May 2021 05:31


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
Andy Hearn wrote:

    well, hoping the 060 can make it bearable. just want to see if Libre office can run... :)
   

   
    LOL nice joke
 

 
  080 100Mhz, fast mem controller, 512MB DDR3, gfx card and faster IDE?
 
  Jacub will test it, and I will do my own try with ucLinux within next two months will report back.
 
  Its dog slow, but I do need any Office on Amiga (Amiga Writter unavailiable to buy and too old) and some presentation software to be able to spend more time on Vampire and outsource some job to it from PC and iMac G5
 
  P.S.
  If anything can be done on V4SA MMU 68k front, next two months is the time :) Would donate small one time. We need VMEM and MMU for m68k Linux

Update:

Found some nice Warp users to test Deb10 at Discord. They were a bit bitchy I use Vampire, but we came to common understanding. Within 2 months we will have Warped tests of deb9, deb10, accel linux and uclinux.

In the end, I will try uclinux with my linux guru, trying to make some apps leeched from latest Deb10 ext4 m68k image, and IF everything does right we might have some first small v2 and v4 Linux distro.

But I cant really promise it. Just try what is humanly possible.

More in 2 months, just on time for update of FAQ :)
 


Andy Hearn

Posts 365
19 May 2021 14:27


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

    080 100Mhz, fast mem controller, 512MB DDR3, gfx card and faster IDE?

yeah yeah, i get it i really do, :) but for this exercise, the V4sa's still missing an mmu, so for running linux, its as like taking a ferrari on a boatinglake? ;)

and even in practical everyday amiga terms, the v4sa isn't really any quicker than a the V1200? sysinfo scores are about the same. i guess the V4 will win out with more LE's and what can be packed inside it with the cyclone5 fpga than the cyclone3 - and i would imagine, the actual "in chip" amiga chipset advantage, plus that 600+MB/s ram would offer. but only "future" games could be programmed to take advantage of that i guess.

i'm actually seeing a break point, where having more CPU just isn't needed for a lot of original classic amiga software unless something like ray tracing or 3D rendering grunt is required...

I have BlizzardPPC board i could press back into service if you'd like me to check anything out PPC wise for this linux thing? i don't have a CyberstormPPC board anymore. that, and the A4000T it lived in were doing duty in the imperial war museum last i heard (about ten years ago).

but the basic crux of the matter here is, and i agree with you here, is that the amiga needs some form of office. i have wordworth office, but i'd imagine it's so hilariously out of date now.

however, i would point out that lots of office apps have a web counterpart, and my company has a myapps portal, where pretty much everything you need to work on a day-to-day basis has a web app, including our VoIP phone system.

so maybe we can work with just having a decent web browser and RDP client for the time being? (maybe a cyclone5 512meg variant of the V1200 too for those HTML5 browser tabs? :D ;)


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5418
19 May 2021 16:04


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

 
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

   
Andy Hearn wrote:

      well, hoping the 060 can make it bearable. just want to see if Libre office can run... :)
     

     
    LOL nice joke
 

But I cant really promise it. Just try what is humanly possible.
 
More in 2 months, just on time for update of FAQ :)

 
Guys, don't you get it?
He was pulling your leg.
 
Running Openoffice on an 68K is about is serious
as trying to pull a 40ton lorry with you being on your skateboard.

Open your eyes and stop making a fool out of you.


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
19 May 2021 18:05


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Running Openoffice on an 68K is about is serious
  as trying to pull a 40ton lorry with you being on your skateboard.
 
  Open your eyes and stop making a fool out of you.
 

 
  In 60 days you will see how any version of Libre, any other Linux office tested works. Video on my YT.
 
  It will cost 5 bat stickers and shipping to Belgrade.
 
  By end of year, at least m68k distro for 060 RTG will be ready, if not some Accel Linux with apps for Vampire.
 
  That will cost you screws and shipping to Belgrade.

Its a public bet and YT/Tik Tok challenge :)
 


Carlos Milán

Posts 95
19 May 2021 19:18


Andy Hearn wrote:

  I have BlizzardPPC board i could press back into service if you'd like me to check anything out PPC wise for this linux thing? i don't have a CyberstormPPC board anymore. that, and the A4000T it lived in were doing duty in the imperial war museum last i heard (about ten years ago).

It won't be of much use, as the classic Amiga PPC accelerators need a modified Linux kernel to run on the PPC, called APUS, whose last version is 2.4.20. EXTERNAL LINK 


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
19 May 2021 20:36


Carlos Milán wrote:

    It won't be of much use, as the classic Amiga PPC accelerators need a modified Linux kernel to run on the PPC, called APUS, whose last version is 2.4.20. EXTERNAL LINK   

   
    Yes, BBPC users have latest APUS, but that is inline with DEb 3.x so. My recommendation is, that if they have 060 and plenty of RAM use Deb 9.x/10.x GNOME/LXDE and forget on 604 or 603. It would be good if they have RTG.
 
  Generic PPC Linuxes might partially work, but never heard no one tested them.

There is advanced x1000-x5000-Tabor PPC Linux (Phoenix or such) but this APUS kernel is too old to be inserted, and 603/4 is too weak to drive it, that would be like what Gunnar wishes us too
   


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
19 May 2021 20:46


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
  Guys, don't you get it?
    He was pulling your leg.

 
  Please, grow and learn to speak for yourself.
 
  You can have an impression of something, you might know it doesnt work (but havent seen you try or contribute).
 
  Please, if you do not want to help, I am sure you have way better things to do then to pull my leg.

I dont promise latest Libre I use on x64 Linux and Office, any Linux Office that can work on ucLinux and v4SA


Andy Hearn

Posts 365
19 May 2021 20:49


Andy Hearn wrote:

  i don't have a CyberstormPPC board anymore. that, and the A4000T it lived in were doing duty in the imperial war museum last i heard (about ten years ago).

ah! wrong! about 20 years ago! lol, oh my goodness!

but yeah, i remember getting APUS on my cyberstorm to a shell window, and my next step was to re-compile the kernal to inject the permedia2 driver or something. it was that proper "desk-flip" "what-the-heck-am-i-doing" moment.

i'll have a look at NetBSD at some point - but i'm learning, and having fun with my toys, so it's all good :)


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1896/ 1
19 May 2021 23:15


Bottlenecks

- No Warp drivers
- No Vamp drivers
- Generic AGA RTG drivers killing perforamance
- No real optimized 060 080 MMX kernels
- Limited Amiga support
- MMU dependencies on taking apps out of Deb to ucLinux
- No one has ever tried
- lack of GCC and glibc support for m68k in latest versions
- programistic problem with linux kenrel on amiga hardware
- use it as generic framebuffer with horrible performance
- vox cant code but gladly he has a friend that can
- too slow CPU to run any office according to BigGun

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