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Questions and Answers for AMIGA Workbench or Coffin

Future Os3.2 Feats: Iconify

Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
19 Oct 2019 07:17


Source: amitropia
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Seems os3.2 will have mui feat of any window being able to iconify.

Nice add to Reaction (and shell) but when will printer drivers and 080/saga come to list?


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
19 Oct 2019 07:48


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Source: amitropia
  EXTERNAL LINK   
 
 
  Seems os3.2 will have mui feat of any window being able to iconify.
 
  Nice add to Reaction (and shell) but when will printer drivers and 080/saga come to list?

Meh....so what.  This is not a killer feature that everyone has been waiting for and since the source of this story is Hyperion and OS 3.2 will also be released by Hyperion, I'll be sure not to make a purchase of OS 3.2.  Everything Hyperion touches turns to crap.  I also can't imagine any classic OS held by Hyperion to support the Vampire because Hyperion being controlled by a slime-ball attorney will want a cut of every Vampire sold and I suspect that Gunnar doesn't want to make any deals with the devil, er, I mean any slime-ball attorneys.  A-Eon had a "business" arrangement with Hyperion and that turned out to be a disaster for A-Eon.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
19 Oct 2019 08:13


Steve Ferrell wrote:

    A-Eon had a "business" arrangement with Hyperion and that turned out to be a disaster for A-Eon.
   

   
    It's nice to see reaction improving (incl. Enhancers real new classes), but as you say, nothing new under the sun. Too little, too late, even too expensive for end user (4.0,4.1,4.1fe, enhancer ... 3.1.4,3.2, enhancer 68k ...)
 
    Things I would download kingcon and mui for, and get it done,back in the a1200 days.
   
    Bad news is: it seems there will be os3.2. investment/return ratio of os 3.1.4 was good enough. So, milking with little effort continues.
   
    Good news is: you got it right. My a1-x1000 stuck for years without prepaid os4.2, cfe bugfix, timberwolf and libre office and with only hack door to unsupported Linux to keep it usable. No morphos either.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
19 Oct 2019 09:42


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Steve Ferrell wrote:

      A-Eon had a "business" arrangement with Hyperion and that turned out to be a disaster for A-Eon.
   

   

    Bad news is: it seems there will be os3.2. investment/return ratio of os 3.1.4 was good enough. So, milking with little effort continues.

Yeah, it's easy to make a return on an investment such as OS 3.1.4 when you don't pay your programmers.  Hyperion has a habit of not paying its bills or it employees.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
21 Oct 2019 20:54


OS 3.2 feature list (so far)

GadTools now are font sensitive which is used by the new preferences editor and other system tools.

Regarding the print setting now the name of the output device can be specified instead of choosing the parallel or serial interface.

The name of the title line can be changed.

Windows can be iconified.

The Shell remebers commands which have been already entered. You can also search through these commands.

The Shell offers an input assistance.

There is a new, minimal AUX-Handler which enables tab expansion to also work over the serial line.


Robert Downs

Posts 28
24 Oct 2019 21:28


Steve Ferrell wrote:

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  Source: amitropia
    EXTERNAL LINK   
 
 
  Seems os3.2 will have mui feat of any window being able to iconify.
 
  Nice add to Reaction (and shell) but when will printer drivers and 080/saga come to list?
 

 
  Meh....so what.  This is not a killer feature that everyone has been waiting for and since the source of this story is Hyperion and OS 3.2 will also be released by Hyperion, I'll be sure not to make a purchase of OS 3.2.  Everything Hyperion touches turns to crap.  I also can't imagine any classic OS held by Hyperion to support the Vampire because Hyperion being controlled by a slime-ball attorney will want a cut of every Vampire sold and I suspect that Gunnar doesn't want to make any deals with the devil, er, I mean any slime-ball attorneys.  A-Eon had a "business" arrangement with Hyperion and that turned out to be a disaster for A-Eon.

Why are we poo-pooing any development.  Seems dumb.


Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 112
24 Oct 2019 21:47


Yeah! Outright stupid ! Be thankfull and respectfull instead. Bigger features will come.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4840
24 Oct 2019 22:10


Roger Andre Lassen wrote:

  Be thankfull and respectfull instead.
 

 
  I fully agree.
We should look forward to any development done for AMIGA and we should support it.
 
  Of course "supporting Amiga development" becomes tricky
  if money paid for things like OS 3.2
  will in the end be used to make lawsuits
  and to fight and destroy other AMIGA developers.
 
  Then this whole thing becomes a moral dilemma. Doesnt it?


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
24 Oct 2019 22:50


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

       
         
          Then this whole thing becomes a moral dilemma. Doesnt it?
       

       
Exactly, I'm tired of everything that Hyperion touches becoming a moral dilemma. Any revenue they generate will be used to sue other developers out of existence.  Remember, it IS a firm owned and run by an attorney, not by software developers and Thomas has been coding for free.  Maybe that $5 you're setting aside on every Vampire sale could be used as an incentive to get Thomas to improve AROS, unless of course he did something really dumb like signing an NDA and a non-compete clause with Hyperion.
     
As for paying Hyperion $40+ for a version of Workbench whose only improvement is to iconify apps, screens and windows, well, that's also what I classify as dumb, but to each his own because such capabilities already exist and it's free:
  EXTERNAL LINK     
and here:  EXTERNAL LINK     
and here:  EXTERNAL LINK     
But, Roger Andre Lassen, if you want to keep paying Hyperion to stifle everyone and everything they touch and pay for apps that you could get for free, then knock yourself out.
   
As for development, Hyperion has never been a developer.  They hire contract programmers who eventually get stiffed or go unpaid even though Hyperion is getting revenue from sales.
   
These latest 3.2 announcements look a lot like Hyperion cherry-picking the best opensource and freeware apps off of Aminet and slapping their name and a price on it.  Typical Hyperion...steal other's work and sell it.


Gerardo González-Trejo

Posts 41
25 Oct 2019 09:00


I´m still thinking the same thing that I commented years ago:

1- Hyperion is part of the problem.
2- AROS is part of the solution.
3- A monthly subscription model from 5€ to X€ is really needed, with diferent rewards (access to apps, tools, etc...), to maintain the development till reach an stable, usable version, fast, without investing several years more.

Until that happens, We´ll have Hyperion for a while...


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 180
25 Oct 2019 09:15


Steve Ferrell wrote:

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  Nice add to Reaction........
 

  Meh....so what.  This is not a killer feature that everyone has been waiting for..........

But it would be welcomed by developers with open arms.  Without it, the alternative is MUI.  And it is not really properly maintained for M68k.  The author(s?) don't even have real M68k hardware anymore and focus on OS4 versions.  Recent versions are highly unreliable on M68k.  So we are forever stuck with the ancient 3.8 version.

React could be a real alternative.  Until now, it was relegated to OS3.5/9.  It's predecessor, Class Act, ceased to exist.  React bundled with the OS would provide developers with a standard GUI toolkit for writing modern and sophisticated Apps.  Such a toolkit is desperately needed on OS3.  Gadtools is far too simple and inflexible and BOOPSI, while being for that time truly insightful, was a well thought out concept but lacking a completed implementation.  Reaction would be the finished product.  I see this as a very good move.

Is Hyperion the hero or vilan?  I don't know what to think about Hyperion, or Cloanto for that matter.  Whoever wins the various court cases, I hope that the winner is an open sourced Amiga OS.  AROS seems to be the lead contender in that space so far.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 647
25 Oct 2019 10:02


Magellan is able to to that since at least 1998...


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 647
25 Oct 2019 10:06


3.1.4 and 3.2 are certainly much more than iconofying windows but it is some sort of irony that the developer behind it moans about splitting the classic platform and is doing the same, at least indirect because any change in kickstarts that is affecting behavior or adding anything is making a split.


Gerardo González-Trejo

Posts 41
25 Oct 2019 10:19


Ronnie Beck wrote:

 
Steve Ferrell wrote:

   
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

      Nice add to Reaction........
   

    Meh....so what.  This is not a killer feature that everyone has been waiting for..........
   

   
  Is Hyperion the hero or vilan?
 
 

 
  Hyperion is not hero nor villain, they simply got everything with legal tricks because they were foxy where others not. And if you do not protect V2 and V4 hardware too, We will see Hyperion living from your development, making profit, and finally launching their own system or getting yours...
 
  I suggest protecting the 68080 core and firmware against "unsupported" distributions and Operating Systems. So if Hyperion wants to develop something for V2 or V4, then take a fee per system...


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
25 Oct 2019 12:22


Short: Upgrading Reaction is nice, and brings some "standard", but just trying to get to what we already have (and some of these feats were in MUI, OS 3.5,OS 3.9, promised Enhancer 68k?)
 
  Long answer: I used to see multi gui as strengths of AmigaOs, like with Linux.    I find mui as standard, since beat apps use it.
     
      Os4 mui is not fully legal and hack to enable Odyssey backport, real way to get it Is Mos backport of Real mui 4.x if not dependent on ambient. Or backport ambient too. That one has authors blessing and is fully (c) developed. E.g. how to develop for real MUI 4.x EXTERNAL LINK   
  EXTERNAL LINK They try hard to pass the author, bump the version to 5.x to distinguish from MOS one (while retaining similar functionality) and dont acknowledge how did they get sources. MUI5 Really interesting task is bringing MUI to AROS EXTERNAL LINK but it stopped 4 years ago.
   
    Emotion player EXTERNAL LINK is nice os4 example reaction app can be nice and fast, but is rare. And offers less customization then registered mui

posts 15