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Alpha Gold 3.0page  1 2 3 4 5 

Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1424
07 Nov 2019 11:00


Fact a:
V2 core was full before fpu

Fact b: it took serious work to squeeze it. Some nice stuff like sensors was lost.

Fact 3: even v1200 used same cyclone 3 Majsta sais backport was easy but fixing and finalizing core took months.
Fact 4: when you get (s)aga you will loose rtf, fpu or both depends on size. Then you will nag about it.
Even with gfx cards and accels. Ecs machines had ecs plus rtg.

So patience for miracle.

V4 is out and needs care and support. V2 had that for years




Mike Kopack

Posts 257
07 Nov 2019 11:57


Adam - I’m Sorry but there is NO WAY you are going to get everything you want in a V2.  There just isn’t enough space. Yes I would love to get RTG and AGA and FPU and everything else working on my A500 V2 but it just isn’t possible.

Now before you complain - “why can the mister folks get all that?” - remember that they have a MUCH lower cpu version (68020?) which took a lot less logic elements to implement than the 080 we have. 

Nobody said they have or will abandon the V2 lineup. Core 2.12 is still being worked and bug fixes to that beta are being made.  But with core 3 something has to give as there just isn’t enough space for everything.

If you want AGA get a v4 or an A1200 and then the A1200v2 when it comes out. Otherwise, enjoy the v2 and rtg. Honestly it’s not like there was all THAT much that came out requiring AGA.  And I say that as somebody who tried core 3 on my v2 for a few months. 


Adam Whittaker

Posts 261
07 Nov 2019 13:21


god I am so sick and tired of this argument on here - non of the team have ever directly stated for definate that RTG and AGA wont fit in the samee core... They have said that it needs work and we might loose FPU but what use is FPU these days anyway? as for by a V4 i would love to but its way too expensive... I see posts day after day on facebook and various other amiga groups from people who have purchased a V2 and the are asking stuff like "How do i boot from the SD slot?" or "how do I get AGA and RTG?" what you dont see are questions like "Can we have a better FPU" or "when is the FPU going to be improved" becasue very few people use a sodding FPU! I just feel like V2 has been dropped like a hot potato and its frustrating!


David Wright

Posts 336
07 Nov 2019 13:27


Adam, sometimes no answer is an answer.


Adam Whittaker

Posts 261
07 Nov 2019 13:44


I give up.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1424
07 Nov 2019 14:18


Adam Whittaker wrote:

      I see posts day after day on facebook and various other amiga groups from people who have purchased a V2 and the are asking stuff like "How do i boot from the SD slot?" or "how do I get AGA and RTG?"
   

 
 
  GOLD3 core guess - I suppose not being in the works at all now,so its all wild guess
  -----------------------------------
 
  I am no team, but FPU and RTG are gone in Alpha, that is not a full featured SAGA core. You believe they can add more elements and return RTG? If they succeed, my kudos. But SAGA will have similar resolutions, and for GOLD3 its far more important to have unified audio/video out for chipset, eliminating dual monitor need with v2. Indivision can also solve this.
   
  SD Boot
  --------------------------------
    Yes, SD Card slot boot should have a higher priority and be there with V4 mature core and lets say 2.13
   
    Brave ones can try
    EXTERNAL LINK     
  How to boot - use SD just for data
  -------------------
    You can attach anything to IDE, or with IDE2SATA,IDE2SD converters
 
  How to get AGA?
  -----------------------
   
    You get AGA if you buy A1200 or V4 instantly, for V2 you will have to face minimum minus FPU and likely RTG.
   
    You must understand that V4 has I believe more then twice LE.
   
    Before V4 development started, AGA was never promised to V2 and it was always said it will be a late backport.
   
  Its not that bad, at all
  ----------------------
    V2 people have:
   
    - Few more years of Vamp experience to V4 users
    - Stable and feature rich core
    - Less FPU,RAM and Cache, but yet cheaper product - nicely scaled.
    - Ability to use floppy and classic keyboard as well as old school video out/RF for OCS
   
    V2s will get AGA and unified video/audio digital out with GOLD3 but kind of for gaming only. FPU gets real use with non-gamers.
   
  FPU Question
  -----------------
    I can ask, when will something use faster and better v4 FPU to full extent to show we can beat P75 FPU that used to run Quake :)
   
   
Adam Whittaker wrote:

    I give up.
   

 
  Always look on a bright side of life
  ----------------- 
    To what? New gold 2.x cores can be expected every several months, and GOLD3 will appear in 2020.
   
    You can reflash from AmigaOS and boot back. You could have one OS that is RTG/FPU and other WHDLoad/AGA gaming.


Mike Kopack

Posts 257
07 Nov 2019 14:33


Adam - what exactly are you not getting that you saw promised on the web/sales page? AGA was never promised AFAIK on v2. Some people DO use FPU - you are wrong about that. There are those who still bitch about the FPU on v2 not being 80 bit precision. You do realize you will lose floppy drive support too with core 3 right?
 
  Fact is you have a stable V2 product now.  The team is only a dozen or so folks doing this part time and currently trying to stabilize the v4 and get the 1200v2 models done. They have limited bandwidth. AGA on V2 is a “nice to have” not a “need” nor a “promised”. They have been VERY clear in their communications that v2 would receive backporting from v4 - that does NOT mean every feature! And since v4 cores are still VERY much in flux and being updated almost weekly they are neither in a position to be ready to backport to v2 not have the bandwidth to do it right now.


Adam Whittaker

Posts 261
07 Nov 2019 14:45


Yer I'm done - the amiga scene is toxic now... I will carry on enjoying what I have amiga wise but keep my opinions to myself and wont frequent here, amibay or eab anymore. Can who ever is in charge here please delete my account. Thank you.


Nixus Minimax

Posts 342
07 Nov 2019 14:49


Adam Whittaker wrote:
RTG and AGA wont fit in the samee core... They have said that it needs work and we might loose FPU but what use is FPU these days anyway?

AGA and RTG are both a subset of SAGA. I believe full SAGA should fit in the V2 at the expense of the FPU but the RTG-part of SAGA has been dropped for the time being because it would make debugging the AGA part more difficult, not because it can't possibly fit.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1424
07 Nov 2019 14:51


Adam Whittaker wrote:

  Yer I'm done - the amiga scene is toxic now... I will carry on enjoying what I have amiga wise but keep my opinions to myself and wont frequent here, amibay or eab anymore. Can who ever is in charge here please delete my account. Thank you.
 

 
  Sad to see you go. Accounts cannot be deleted, its enough not to use it.

 
  Too bad reason and facts dont help. Its not toxicity, it is "as is".
 
  EAB is I hope nice place to be, and please come back "when things start running your way".

Nixus Minimax wrote:

  AGA and RTG are both a subset of SAGA.

No they are not, SAGA was badly used in early promo for RTG+DIGITAL-VIDEO.

SAGA is in fact chipset recreation done for V4 models.
Some of its feats will be backported to GOLD3 like 16-bit sound and 24-bit planes, but it will work as chipset native modes, not RTG.

Depending on size of cut down version, you will loose floppy (even physically there), FPU for sure, likely RTG and maybe even some minor function.

Do understand that 080 CPU, minimal caches and RTG support plus cut down FPU really eat it all. So you have to scale down to add anything to CPU. It would be far different for 00-020 model, but then it wont be a Vampire?


Mike Kopack

Posts 257
07 Nov 2019 14:53


Adam Whittaker wrote:

Yer I'm done - the amiga scene is toxic now... I will carry on enjoying what I have amiga wise but keep my opinions to myself and wont frequent here, amibay or eab anymore. Can who ever is in charge here please delete my account. Thank you.

Um seriously man? How is anything we are saying to you TOXIC? Nobody called you names or said you are dumb or anything like that. We are just trying to make you realize that your expectations are a tad out of whack with reality is all. Only person here getting bent out of shape is you. 


Nixus Minimax

Posts 342
07 Nov 2019 15:39


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

 
Nixus Minimax wrote:

  AGA and RTG are both a subset of SAGA.
 

 
  No they are not, SAGA was badly used in early promo for RTG+DIGITAL-VIDEO.
 
  SAGA is in fact chipset recreation done for V4 models.
  Some of its feats will be backported to GOLD3 like 16-bit sound and 24-bit planes, but it will work as chipset native modes, not RTG.

There is no real contradiction here, I think. The way RTG is implemented on the Vampires is in fact by adding chunky modes to the AGA chipset (as you said). This adds the "S" in "SAGA". Since AmigaOS has no support for chunky modes, these new features appear through P96 and are thus commonly referred to as "RTG". Hence, it is correct to say that RTG and AGA are subsets of SAGA.



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4171
07 Nov 2019 15:47


Nixus Minimax wrote:

There is no real contradiction here, I think. The way RTG is implemented on the Vampires is in fact by adding chunky modes to the AGA chipset (as you said). This adds the "S" in "SAGA". Since AmigaOS has no support for chunky modes, these new features appear through P96 and are thus commonly referred to as "RTG". Hence, it is correct to say that RTG and AGA are subsets of SAGA.
 

This is true.
AGA has 8 planes
SAGA has 10 planes... and 2 of them can be switch to chunky modes.
Like e.g 24bit in one Plane.

All the 10 planes are Copper controllable - like every real AMIGA chipset should be


David Wright

Posts 336
07 Nov 2019 16:11


Gee Gunnar, of all the comments and inquiries you only chose that part to answer? You sly fellow.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4171
07 Nov 2019 16:30


David Wright wrote:

  Gee Gunnar, of all the comments and inquiries you only chose that part to answer?

 
I think everything else was answered before already and clearly.
 
The V2 generally works good.
V2 is a great device to accelerate old AMIGAs
 
Right now our team focus is to bring V4 out, so that people which have no old AMIGA anymore can again enjoy playing AMIGA.
 
There is a lot work to do for the V4.
After these items are done - we can work on porting the SAGA developments back to V2.
 
But I believe that all this was said exactly like this before.

You can believe us.
The APOLLO-TEAM works each and every day as hard as we can.



David Wright

Posts 336
07 Nov 2019 16:46


Great movie pic there.
I have my v2 with the 500 board in Checkmate case with a hdmi to scart switch. I very nice Amiga experience.

Thanks to Apollo and third parties who developed ethernet and sd card capabilities it got even better. I still remember, buy Vampire for the features it has today. Sage advice and well taken.


Taras Shevchenko

Posts 5
25 Nov 2019 11:42


Dear Amigos,
I'm about to disturb you "holy war" regarding the topic :).
Could you please help/advise about a couple of practical questions regarding the core 3.0:

1)Did anyone experienced the same situation:
When the 3.0 is flashed, system is failing to boot, blinking with the power led. I'm unplugging the DIGITAL-VIDEO cable and it boots fine! After that it's possible to plug the DIGITAL-VIDEO in and see the screen.
Vampire v2.1 for A600, black PCB, machine is freshly re-capped.
I tried to: a) re-flash; b) clean CPU socket pins, c) change the PSU - doesn't help!
And at the same time, core 2.11-2.12 works 100% with no issues!

2) When I try to run any AGA game with WHDLOAD, system blame "wrong 40068.A1200" and doesn't run. I tried to replace the file with different other versions of 3.1 kick, with no success.
The same set of kicks are working fine on my A1200.
Do you know why it doesn't work on A600+Vampire+core3.0alpha?
Do I need any special kick-rom for that?

Great thanks in advance!


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 106
25 Nov 2019 12:38


Taras Shevchenko wrote:

Dear Amigos,
  I'm about to disturb you "holy war" regarding the topic :).
  Could you please help/advise about a couple of practical questions regarding the core 3.0:
 
  1)Did anyone experienced the same situation:
  When the 3.0 is flashed, system is failing to boot, blinking with the power led. I'm unplugging the DIGITAL-VIDEO cable and it boots fine!

What is the DIGITAL-VIDEO cable plugged into?  I have a SCART-to-DIGITAL-VIDEO converter which has an additional DIGITAL-VIDEO input, which I connect the digital-video from the vampire to.  When I power off the Amiga, I notice that the LED from my optical mouse is still powered.  When I disconnect the power from the SCART-to-DIGITAL-VIDEO, the LED on the optical mice goes out.  What this suggests, is that there is voltage leaking from the SCART-to-DIGITAL-VIDEO converter and powering the vampire and mouse a little.  This would mean that powering off the Amiga wouldn't necessarily power off the vampire.  And this needs to happen for the new core (gold 3) to start.

I would suggest you disconnect the DIGITAL-VIDEO cable from the Vampire when flashing cores.  I don't think it would damage something but it might cause your problem here.

Taras Shevchenko wrote:

  2) When I try to run any AGA game with WHDLOAD, system blame "wrong 40068.A1200" and doesn't run. I tried to replace the file with different other versions of 3.1 kick, with no success.
  The same set of kicks are working fine on my A1200.
  Do you know why it doesn't work on A600+Vampire+core3.0alpha?
  Do I need any special kick-rom for that?
 
  Great thanks in advance!

I am not an expert on WHDLOAD so i might be wrong in this.  There are kick files which are used by WHDLOAD (typically in DEVS:kickstart).  These are loaded when a game is loaded by WHDLOAD.  This is separate from your Amiga's main kickstart, so no need to mess with that.  I suspect you are simply missing this file.  Check in DEVS:Kickstart to see if this file is missing (or the directory itself!).

Someone else will have a better answer though.



Roy Gillotti

Posts 350
25 Nov 2019 13:19


@Ronnie Beck
 
  Yeah I have the same issue with it being still powered on.
 
  If the H.D.M.I to SCART to H.D.M.I adapter Is like the one I have, I noticed these device's the 5V source keeps the vampire powered on, unplug it and it will power off. I also found that it works in reverse the Vampire's H.D.M.I seems to power this adapter itself, so I just don't use the external power supply with it. I have another one made under a different branding, but looks exactly the same that doesn't seem to have this behavior. 

EXTERNAL LINK 


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 106
25 Nov 2019 13:44


Roy Gillotti wrote:

I have another one made under a different branding, but looks exactly the same that doesn't seem to have this behavior. 
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Nice to know!  Does it have that annoying screen overlay which pops up everytime the input signal changes (resolution/scanrate/PAL-NTSC)?

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