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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

OS 4.1 With Vampire 500V2+

Mirko Lange

Posts 12
10 Feb 2017 15:22


Hello is this possible?
And what Version must i have?
Classic or PPC?
Thanks


Michal Warzecha

Posts 149
10 Feb 2017 16:52


Not possible. OS 4.1 needs PPC CPU. There are only 2 turbo cards whitch let You run OS 4 on classic Amigas- Blizzard PPC or CyberstormPPC. So You need A1200 or A3/4k.
Mayby A500 with ACA500 with Blizzard PPC, but can't tell You it will work or not.


Mirko Lange

Posts 12
10 Feb 2017 17:10


Okay thanks for your answer


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2396
11 Feb 2017 08:48


Apollo 68080 has enough CPU power to run OS4.
But OS4 is not available compiled for 68k.




René W. Olsen

Posts 8
11 Feb 2017 10:10


Amiga OS4 NEEDS a MMU, so 68080 is not mature enough to run it.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2396
11 Feb 2017 10:16


René W. Olsen wrote:

Amiga OS4 NEEDS a MMU, so 68080 is not mature enough to run it.

APOLLO 68080 has an MMU.

What for does OS4 NEED an MMU?




Michal Warzecha

Posts 149
11 Feb 2017 10:18


There is no difference between missing MMU or PPC instructions. Effect is same- os can't be launched on Vampire. But still Vampire has enough power to do this. Mayby some day missing thing can be added to some libs like 68060.library for missing old 68k instructions on 68060 CPU. And os4 will work :P


René W. Olsen

Posts 8
11 Feb 2017 15:24


AmigaOS4 uses the MMU to setup Virtual memory..

It also set some of the memory Read Only to protect Kickstart modules..

Drivers even setup memory pages to be cache inhibited..

and then there is also support for Swapping out memory..

So AOS4 do use the MMU... but if Vampire has a working MMU then I stand corrected.


René W. Olsen

Posts 8
11 Feb 2017 15:26


@Michal

if you want to backport AmigaOS4 you can do it with missing FPU as that can be software emulated... that is no possible if MMU.


Wawa T

Posts 166
11 Feb 2017 19:23


os4 is not open source. nothing can be done about it. besides os4 concepts differ from the genuine os.


M Rickan

Posts 41
11 Feb 2017 21:30


wawa t wrote:

os4 is not open source. nothing can be done about it. besides os4 concepts differ from the genuine os.

That misses the point entirely.

We have email, social media, telephones and three-eyed crows that deliver messages. That's what can be done about it.

The Vampire is giving legacy systems modern capabilities and the user base will almost certainly eclipse that of the two classic PPC accelerators. Ten years ago, PPC was the only option.

If the market is there, all of the other challenges quickly melt away.

And... I'm sure a lot of people didn't consider the Atari community as a potential channel for the Vampire either and now look. TOS certainly wasn't a "genuine" Amiga OS. Who cares?



Wawa T

Posts 166
12 Feb 2017 06:58


Who cares?

yes. apparently atari people do. and they have an open source os. good for them.

now, people behind os4 obviously dont. they told it again and again, they have their dedicated hardware, and it is both faster, which they like to stress, and brings more revenue. you are free to contact them and check this all yourself.

if you want one to certain extent more advanced and open source os, which is compatible with your amiga application there is aros. it remains even to be proven how compatible and fast os4 native on 68k would be if ported, since it always used emulation for 68k programs. with aros this is known.

so, if you really intend to get os4 running on a vampire, go ahead, nothing against it. its simply very unlikely.



M Rickan

Posts 41
12 Feb 2017 22:18


wawa t wrote:

  so, if you really intend to get os4 running on a vampire, go ahead, nothing against it. its simply very unlikely.

This isn't about the community chiming in on technical feasibility or the strategic objectives of the players.

The question was simple: have channels been opened up to explore relationships with third parties?

At present, the answer simply appears to be no - and that's fine.

But one thing we do know for certain: the only way to truly know the likelihood of something is to communicate with the people involved.


Wawa T

Posts 166
12 Feb 2017 22:29



This isn't about the community chiming in on technical feasibility or the strategic objectives of the players.

exactly. the answer was "no", because you even chimed in. end of story.


Nixus Minimax

Posts 117
13 Feb 2017 06:08


m rickan wrote:

 
  The question was simple: have channels been opened up to explore relationships with third parties?

Yes, even money was offered to Hyperion but they said they would take it and put it into PPC development.



M Rickan

Posts 41
14 Feb 2017 06:17


wawa t wrote:

  exactly. the answer was "no", because you even chimed in. end of story.

Right... the power of negative thinking.


M Rickan

Posts 41
14 Feb 2017 06:18


Nixus Minimax wrote:

  Yes, even money was offered to Hyperion but they said they would take it and put it into PPC development.

And if so, it pretty much tells us that OS5 needs to be a complete departure.


Mr Niding

Posts 7
14 Feb 2017 09:43


m rickan wrote:

 
Nixus Minimax wrote:

    Yes, even money was offered to Hyperion but they said they would take it and put it into PPC development.
 

 
  And if so, it pretty much tells us that OS5 needs to be a complete departure.
 

 
  OS5 needs to be a complete depature...? What do you mean about that? And how does that relate to the Vampire?
 
Genuine question, as your post wasnt clear, atleast to me.

General commentary; Hyperion is having a hard enough time to deliver the basics they have promised/envisioned for AOS 4.2/PPC hardware, let alone transfering it over to 68k.
Basically it seems to me the raw number of developers competent enough to even dream about doing anything like you think about on a OS level, is too far and few between.

Thats my impression anyhow.


M Rickan

Posts 41
15 Feb 2017 05:40


Mr Niding wrote:

  OS5 needs to be a complete depature...? What do you mean about that? And how does that relate to the Vampire?
 
  Genuine question, as your post wasnt clear, atleast to me.
 
  General commentary; Hyperion is having a hard enough time to deliver the basics they have promised/envisioned for AOS 4.2/PPC hardware, let alone transfering it over to 68k.
  Basically it seems to me the raw number of developers competent enough to even dream about doing anything like you think about on a OS level, is too far and few between.

The OP asked about the possibility of 4.1 becoming available for the Vampire.

If Hyperion intends to remain focused on PPC, I suspect that 4.1 support is unlikely and that they would dismiss the idea in the same way that they have always dismissed support for other platforms.

I also believe that the likelihood of the OS evolving with them in charge is equally grim, meaning that 5.0 would be better off if it did not leverage 4.1.

We all understand that there are a limited number of developers capable of doing specialized tasks and that financial resources are often limited.

But... other projects find developers, other projects find money and other projects deliver.

I'm not suggesting that any of this is easy but perhaps it's time for change.

posts 19