Overview Features Coding Performance Forum Downloads Products OrderV4 Contact

Welcome to the Apollo Forum

This forum is for people interested in the APOLLO CPU.
Please read the forum usage manual.



All TopicsNewsPerformanceGamesDemosApolloVampireAROSWorkbenchATARIReleases
Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Analog VGA Output

Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
03 Dec 2021 14:30


Hello all.
 
Will it be possible to use analog VGA CRT-monitors with a future IceDrake accelerator? I mean using both AGA and modern Hi-Res modes?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
04 Dec 2021 07:29


Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Hello all.
 
  Will it be possible to use analog VGA CRT-monitors with a future IceDrake accelerator? I mean using both AGA and modern Hi-Res modes?

The ICEEDRAKE has a Digital Video Out.
You can connect there a modern LCD monitor and can view there both AGA display and modern Hi-res Modes.
You only need one cable for this and the switch between AGA games/Demos and a truecolor high resolution Workbench is automatic
  you do not need to switch by hand.

Of you want to use an older VGA monitor then this works too.
All you need is an Digital to VGA adapter, which is about $10.


Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
15 Dec 2021 13:34


Hi, Gunnar!
 
  Will AGA video be generated by native A1200 chipset or this will be a result of Vampire SAGA work?
 
  And another question: for example, if I will connect CRT VGA monitor via DIGITAL-VIDEO<->VGA adapter, will I get a scandoubled TV modes (31 khz, not 15 khz)? And can IceDrake card also upscale vertical scan rate for PAL modes from 50 to 60 hz, like Indivision does?
 
  Thanks.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
15 Dec 2021 14:41


Hi Sergey,

Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Hi, Gunnar!
 
Will AGA video be generated by native A1200 chipset or this will be a result of Vampire SAGA work?

AGA comes out on both your A1200 video port, and on the IceDrake DigitalVideo out.

Sergey Gorsky wrote:

  And another question: for example, if I will connect CRT VGA monitor via DIGITAL-VIDEO<->VGA adapter, will I get a scandoubled TV modes (31 khz, not 15 khz)? And can IceDrake card also upscale vertical scan rate for PAL modes from 50 to 60 hz, like Indivision does?
 

Yes the IceDrake AGA video out is scan doubled 31khz and supports Scannlines (they can be turned on/off)



Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
16 Dec 2021 19:24


Thank you for you reply.

Another question. Is it possible to use ordinary AmigaOS 3.1 with standard A1200 Kickstart ROM? I always like to "construct" my own AmigaOS environment by choosing different patches/libraries and so on.

I don't want to use CoffinOS, AROS etc. But I want to have an RTG, AHI sound and IceDrake IDE interface.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
16 Dec 2021 22:30


Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Thank you for you reply.
 
  Another question. Is it possible to use ordinary AmigaOS 3.1 with standard A1200 Kickstart ROM? I always like to "construct" my own AmigaOS environment by choosing different patches/libraries and so on.
 
  I don't want to use CoffinOS, AROS etc. But I want to have an RTG, AHI sound and IceDrake IDE interface.

Yes sure.
You can install / use the OS you like.
OS 3.1 or even Atari-OS


Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
20 Dec 2021 22:26


Will IceDrake has an RTC-clock onboard?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
21 Dec 2021 09:01


Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Will IceDrake has an RTC-clock onboard?

Hello Sergey,

The V4-SA, V4-Firebird, V4-IceDrake all have an RTC connector to which you can connect a small RTC module. The modules are available in the Shop.


Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
21 Dec 2021 11:56


Hi, Gunnar.

I apologize for my regular single questions :)

How does audio work: does original Paula chip still generate sound? Does Vampire enhanced sound goes through A1200 RCA connectors or there is a dedicated audio output on board?

Do Vampire enhanced audio modes requires an AHI driver or not?

Thanks.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
21 Dec 2021 13:12


Hi Sergey,

the SAGA audio is available on the DIGITAL-VIDEO port.

Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Does Vampire enhanced sound goes through A1200 RCA connectors or there is a dedicated audio output on board?

The Amiga mobo plug can not provide this.
The enhanced Amiga audio goes over the DIGITAL-VIDEO.

Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Do Vampire enhanced audio modes requires an AHI driver or not?

You can use them without driver.
But there is also an AHI driver for software like to use AHI.

Saying this AHI by itself is not the best design - its a clutch not matching the idea of the original Amiga engineers. AHI is good for PC hardware that has no Amiga chipset but not good for real Amigas.


Nick Fellows

Posts 134
22 Dec 2021 13:28


Does this mean there is no future in third party sound cards?
If AHI is not a good design what does a good design look like - it sounds like you are saying "Our way or the highway"!

Please can you clarify your stance on this? what would be the preferred driver system to use if one wanted to develop a vampire
compliant sound card.


Tim Trepanier

Posts 120
22 Dec 2021 18:04


nick fellows wrote:
If AHI is not a good design what does a good design look like - it sounds like you are saying "Our way or the highway"!

There are a lot of different ways available to solve a computer problem.

The PC way is through "brute force". They rely of ever increasing amounts of CPU power, RAM, and system resources to pound through a solution. This is like attaching and using a jet engine to move a bicycle a couple meters.

The Amiga way is through "elegant design". Like using bicycle pedals to move the bike.

Elegant design takes more brains and time to do but the result is vastly more efficient and easier to use systems. Imagine monitoring and operating all the controls of a jet engine or simply pushing a pedal.


Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
23 Dec 2021 22:49


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
  Yes the IceDrake AGA video out is scan doubled 31khz and supports Scannlines (they can be turned on/off)

So, PAL videomodes will be shown as 31 khz hsync AND *60 hz* vsync? Or PAL modes will remain with 50 hz?

And is it possible to use 1024x768 videomode with RTG? If yes, how many color available for this mode? Is it slow?

Thanks.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
24 Dec 2021 07:21


Sergey Gorsky wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
  Yes the IceDrake AGA video out is scan doubled 31khz and supports Scannlines (they can be turned on/off)

  So, PAL videomodes will be shown as 31 khz hsync AND *60 hz* vsync? Or PAL modes will remain with 50 hz?

The modes are given out in their correct speed. This means:
PAL = 50Hz
NTSC = 60Hz

 
Sergey Gorsky wrote:

  And is it possible to use 1024x768 videomode with RTG? If yes, how many color available for this mode? Is it slow?
 
  Thanks.

Yes the mode 1024x768 is available.
All color depth are supported in this mode. Also 32bit.
The GFX is very fast. The Vampires are much faster than my A4000 with GFX Card.


Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
24 Dec 2021 08:31


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
  The modes are given out in their correct speed. This means:
  PAL = 50Hz
  NTSC = 60Hz

Returning to the beginning of thread: is it possible to upscale PAL videomode to 60 hz, like Indivision does?

I want to use a CRT-monitor and 50 hz vsync causes a strong headache :)

In case it is impossible - can I use both Indivision AGA and Vampire RTG simultaneously?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
24 Dec 2021 08:57


Sergey Gorsky wrote:

  Returning to the beginning of thread: is it possible to upscale PAL videomode to 60 hz, like Indivision does?
 

 
PAL is 50 Hz
Games and demos on Amiga are designed to scroll smooth in 50Hz.
They will only look smooth in PAL with 50hz.
 
If you would change the PAL from 50Hz to 60Hz then this scrollers and games will get "jerky". It will not look anymore smooth.
 
Our goal is to give out the Amiga signal as original and best as possible
Therefore the display on our cards is 100% in sync with the original Amiga display.
This means there is no delay.
Scrolling is smooth without jerkyness
And as the display is fully in sync you can even play Light gun games!
 


Sergey Gorsky

Posts 9
24 Dec 2021 09:02


Thanks, Gunnar.

But may be it is possible to double PAL vsync up to 100 hz? It still will be give a smooth picture and also will be comfortable to use with CRT monitor?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5626
11 Jan 2022 23:06


nick fellows wrote:

Does this mean there is no future in third party sound cards?
If AHI is not a good design what does a good design look like - it sounds like you are saying "Our way or the highway"!

 
I think "Lets do it the Amiga way!".
Because the Amiga way is the right way.
 
The Amiga concept is a very elegant DMA machine.
The Amiga hardware can by itself play audio.
This means the CPU on the Amiga only needs to tell the HW to play  music. The Amiga HW can with DMA load the music samples and apply Volume and effect and mix them in HW and give out the result by itself.
 
The CPU is not needed to do this!
 
 
This concept is what was is so elegant in Amiga and what Amiga did so much better than the PC.
 
But AHI does it not the AMIGA way!
Ahi does all this it very unelegantly the clumsy PC way.
AHI misuses the CPU to do all the work that the Amiga HW should do.
 
 
If you take a look at the SAGA Audio Hardware (Arne chip) then you will see that it works perfectly in the elegant Amiga spirit.
The Arne chip can play 8 Channels with 8bit/16bit/32bit samples, and it does this fully DMA based.
The Arne chip will also apply volume on each channel and can do stereo panning. All this is done in HW and the CPU is not needed for this.
 
The SAGA Audio hardware is fully integrated part of the Amiga chipset - this means also the Copper can fully control and orchestrate it.
 
Its an elegant design. Done in the "Amiga way"
 
Does this answer your question?

In my opinion the SAGA audio Hw is the perfect solution.
1) This solution is 100% Amiga game and demo compatible
2) This solution offers 16bit and 2x16=32bit stereo sample support
3) Its DMA based with HW mixing. And does not eats valuable CPU time.

To me this is the perfect solution and I actually not see the need to have another audio card.

posts 18