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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Akiko Chip In Standalonepage  1 2 3 

ExiE CZEX

Posts 48
05 Mar 2020 17:04


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  AKIKO actually is not a stupid solution as a few might think.
  AKIKO is actually good from design.
 
  I think many people have an opinion about AKIKO without understanding much about the facts and details.
 

 
  Stupid and useless are quite different ratings.
 
  And can somebody tell me how many CD32 games really used or even required AKIKO c2p to run? (I know just about WingCommander and Gloom I guess)
 


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
05 Mar 2020 17:47


ExiE CZEX wrote:

And can somebody tell me how many CD32 games really used or even required AKIKO c2p to run? (I know just about WingCommander and Gloom I guess)

AKIKO is an chip to accelerate Chunky to Planar conversion and
to revers Planar to Chunky.

Planar2Chunky conversion is used and needed all day long.
If you have an RTG Screen and view an IFF Akimga picture then you need  to convert to from Planar 2 Chunky.
If you are on an PAL Screen and view an PC-GIF file and you need to convert it from Chunky 2 Planar.
Every AMIGA Icon that you draw on RTG Workbench needs first be  converted from Planar to Chunky...

The examples are endless.
A HW chip which can help here is never a bad idea.


Dma Con

Posts 16
05 Mar 2020 18:12


Akiko is, first and foremost, the CD32 system controller, and its most valuable aspect for me in re-implementing it would be to boot CD32 CD images using the original ROM. I also don’t see any practical use case, besides compatibility, to actually use it in a meaningful way on the Vampire.

Not to devalue the aspect of compatibility, which I think is very important.

From historical design perspective, I think it is the best Commodore could do with the remaining engineering resources. Has anyone ever measured the access latencies / throughput to the C2P Register interface?


Dma Con

Posts 16
05 Mar 2020 20:18


Here is a little video from one of the CD32/Akiko engineers, to get a better idea what it is:
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  In particular, from minute 42 on.
 
  Regarding C2P:
 
  „But it got a lot of press... I don’t know why. It was just three of us sitting at the picnic table having subway sandwiches going „Wouldn’t it be cool if...““


Tim Trepanier

Posts 132
05 Mar 2020 20:38


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
AKIKO is the last AMIGA chip which we not supported yet.

I consider this a major milestone. Whether you like Akiko or not it is part of the Amiga Classic line of computers. Classic support is now complete.

I'm sure Amiga classic support will need some more polish, but work can shift towards the future. Including giving the V1200 some love, and back-porting Gold 3 to the V2 Vampires.


Daniel Sevo

Posts 299
05 Mar 2020 23:07


Since we are trying to make accurate statements about AKIKO (and what it does in the cd32), the C2P part was a small portion of all the stuff that was thrown into AKIKO.
  Maybe easiest if I paste text from Wikipedia here:
  --------------------------------------------------
  Akiko
  Akiko is the CD32's all-purpose 'glue' chip and forms part of the AGA chipset used in that system. Akiko is responsible for implementing system glue logic that in previous Amiga models were found in the discrete chips Budgie, Gayle and the two CIAs. In detail, it includes control logic for the CD32's CD-ROM controller, system timers, the two game ports and the serial ('AUX') port and the chip memory soldered onto the motherboard.[1] It controls a one kilobyte EEPROM for saving data such as highscores etc.
 
  Additionally, the Akiko chip is able to perform simple 'chunky' to 'planar' graphics conversion in hardware. The Amiga's native display is a planar display which is simple and efficient to manipulate for routines like scrolling. However, chunky displays are faster and more efficient for 3D graphics manipulation. Akiko allows this conversion to be performed in hardware instead of relying on software conversion which would cause more overhead. The conversion works by writing 32 8-bit chunky pixels to Akiko's registers and reading back eight 32-bit words of converted planar data which can then be copied to the display buffer.


Knight Stone
(Needs Verification)
Posts 136/ 1
05 Mar 2020 23:30


Daniel Sevo wrote:

Since we are trying to make accurate statements about AKIKO (and what it does in the cd32), the C2P part was a small portion of all the stuff that was thrown into AKIKO.
    Maybe easiest if I paste text from Wikipedia here:
    --------------------------------------------------
    Akiko
    Akiko is the CD32's all-purpose 'glue' chip and forms part of the AGA chipset used in that system. Akiko is responsible for implementing system glue logic that in previous Amiga models were found in the discrete chips Budgie, Gayle and the two CIAs. In detail, it includes control logic for the CD32's CD-ROM controller, system timers, the two game ports and the serial ('AUX') port and the chip memory soldered onto the motherboard.[1] It controls a one kilobyte EEPROM for saving data such as highscores etc.
   
    Additionally, the Akiko chip is able to perform simple 'chunky' to 'planar' graphics conversion in hardware. The Amiga's native display is a planar display which is simple and efficient to manipulate for routines like scrolling. However, chunky displays are faster and more efficient for 3D graphics manipulation. Akiko allows this conversion to be performed in hardware instead of relying on software conversion which would cause more overhead. The conversion works by writing 32 8-bit chunky pixels to Akiko's registers and reading back eight 32-bit words of converted planar data which can then be copied to the display buffer.

many thanks for the explanation  :)

so, does something have to be coded to use Akiko? or is it native hardware, that's part of the process, and therefore all rendering benefits from it?


ExiE CZEX

Posts 48
06 Mar 2020 11:06


Knight Stone wrote:

  so, does something have to be coded to use Akiko? or is it native hardware, that's part of the process, and therefore all rendering benefits from it?

It have to be coded. That's the reason why so few games used it on CD32.


Ian Parsons

Posts 230
06 Mar 2020 11:19


Was there nothing in the CD32 extended ROM for Akiko C2P. Maybe it's something that can be added to AROS 68k if not already done.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
06 Mar 2020 11:20


ExiE CZEX wrote:

  It have to be coded. That's the reason why so few games used it on CD32.
 

 
I can offer another very logical explanation:
 
AKIKO is from design very useful for games like DOOM.

AKIKO is of no use for games like BubbleBobble, GianaSisters, Jump&Run.
 
When CD32 came out then 99% of existing AMIGA games are of 2D Jump & Run style.
Commodore did die then very soon, and no new hardware came out and was sold.
 
If Commodore would have not died, then maybe there would have been sold many CD32 and maybe also Accelerator for CD32 with better CPU
And then certainly also games like in QUAKE style would have come and could have used AKIKO.
 



ExiE CZEX

Posts 48
06 Mar 2020 11:41


Not even AlienBreed 3D use it...
CD32 had not enough memory (and power) to run games like Doom and all  the other 2.5D games that followed


A1200 Coder

Posts 74
06 Mar 2020 11:56


Chunky pixels are useful for CPU sprites too. Try to paint sprites on the screen with CPU on standard Amiga planar modes, and you'll see what I mean. It's still possible, but not as easy or fast as with chunky pixels that AKIKO can handle.

Amiga coders never learned to use anything else than sprites and blitter, but the blitter is very slow even compared to a higher clocked 68030 for plotting out objects on screen. You may have heard that Amiga blitter is equivalent to a 68040 in terms of cookie-cut and such graphics operations, but that is absolutely nonsense, even with planar gfx and AGA chip ram speed.

On old PCs, from 286's to Pentiums, all gfx objects were usually drawn on screen with CPU in chunky mode, since the PCs didnt have blitters or sprites as a standard, and it worked just as well.


Jakub H.

Posts 39
06 Mar 2020 12:07


Gentlemen, I don't know what the problem is, we have Akiko, we can enjoy it, or ... not, but no one will make us pay for it. We now have an "all-in-one" Amiga. Thx


Daniel Sevo

Posts 299
06 Mar 2020 13:11


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
  If Commodore would have not died, then maybe there would have been sold many CD32 and maybe also Accelerator for CD32 with better CPU
  And then certainly also games like in QUAKE style would have come and could have used AKIKO.
 

060 needs fastram and then I guess at that point the C2P part of AKIKO is marginalized / not worth bothering.
Btw, Quake on CD32 is really happening.
Stephen Leary (TerribleFire) is making a 060 card for CD32 just so that he can play Quake on it. :-) (Prototype runs nicely already)



CD32 Freak

Posts 25
06 Mar 2020 16:18


Great job! If we can boot CD32 CD's, then it would be interesting to use a external DVD-drive with a v4SA built inside :-)


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
06 Mar 2020 16:38


Daniel Sevo wrote:

  Btw, Quake on CD32 is really happening.
 

QUAKE and QUAKE2 works great nicely CD32 and much faster than on 060.
BTW, what is fastest CD32?
Yes a CD32 with V1200 attached.


Lord Aga
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 119
06 Mar 2020 17:40


Jakub H. wrote:

Gentlemen, I don't know what the problem is, we have Akiko, we can enjoy it, or ... not, but no one will make us pay for it. We now have an "all-in-one" Amiga. Thx

Exactly :) AKIKO has been a part of Amiga hardware, and is now supported inside the Vampire hardware. No downsides here.


Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 150
06 Mar 2020 17:47


Lord Aga wrote:

Jakub H. wrote:

  Gentlemen, I don't know what the problem is, we have Akiko, we can enjoy it, or ... not, but no one will make us pay for it. We now have an "all-in-one" Amiga. Thx
 

 
  Exactly :) AKIKO has been a part of Amiga hardware, and is now supported inside the Vampire hardware. No downsides here.

Amen !



Daniel Sevo

Posts 299
06 Mar 2020 19:58


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Daniel Sevo wrote:

    Btw, Quake on CD32 is really happening.
 

  QUAKE and QUAKE2 works great nicely CD32 and much faster than on 060.
  BTW, what is fastest CD32?
  Yes a CD32 with V1200 attached.

Wow, I did not know this. We can already attach v1200 to cd32? Thats great news! Good times aheead :-) Is there a video of this  combo running Q2?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
06 Mar 2020 20:53


Daniel Sevo wrote:

Wow, I did not know this. We can already attach v1200 to cd32? Thats great news! Good times aheead :-) Is there a video of this  combo running Q2?

Yes, there is videos of CD32+V1200 on Youtube.


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