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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

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Martin Randall

Posts 21
20 Nov 2019 00:15


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Jim Drew wrote:

  It seems that some still doubt whether the full IEEE compliant 80 bit precision for the FPU is really required for the Mac (or emulations).  Here is a video of WinUAE running FUSION with the 3 different FPU options - 64 bit, 80 bit host, and 80 bit soft-float.  The results speak for themselves.
 

 
 
  Here we can see the following:
 
  - MAC OS 8.1
  - using 64bit FPU
  - running with Shapeshifter
 
  CLICK HERE     
 
  So what do we see here?
  MAC OS 8.1 Window sliders run perfectly well with 64bit FPU.
 
 
  The same is true for Shapeshifter plus Vampire4
  MAC OS 8.1 Window sliders run perfectly well with Shapeshifter and Vampire4.
 
 
  MAC OS has no problem here.
  To me it looks like Fusion has the problem and the easy fix is using Shapeshifter.
 

Busted !!!



Sean Sk

Posts 379
20 Nov 2019 23:39


Jim Drew wrote:

You can ALWAYS copy a disk track by track manually using the editor/analyzer. It just takes a long time to do it this way.  To do this, you load the .scp image file into the editor/analyzer and set the start/end flux points and click the WRITE button and it will write the data to a disk.  Go to the next track/head and repeat.

I wouldn't even begin to know how to, or where to set the start and end flux points. I would much rather see this issue fixed so that it can be done conveniently.

Jim Drew wrote:

The issue with Stunt Track Racer is that the disks were either not commercially produced, or deliberately non-indexed.  My SPLICE routine does not always work because it relies on there being an actual write splice (smeared flux transition which occurs when turning off the writing of the head).  There are some cases where it just so happens to be that the smear perfectly overlaps the next bit cell so a write splice is not apparent.  I have to improve the SPLICE routine to actually look at the MFM structure like I did with Supercard Ami.  You can of course copy this manually track by track, but I think that HxC should have no problem re-indexing the disk.  I will take a look at it.

I consider myself a reasonably patient person, but any chance I'm not going to have to wait another three years for you to look at this?


John William

Posts 467
21 Nov 2019 02:01


sean sk wrote:

Jim Drew wrote:

  You can ALWAYS copy a disk track by track manually using the editor/analyzer. It just takes a long time to do it this way.  To do this, you load the .scp image file into the editor/analyzer and set the start/end flux points and click the WRITE button and it will write the data to a disk.  Go to the next track/head and repeat.
 

 
  I wouldn't even begin to know how to, or where to set the start and end flux points. I would much rather see this issue fixed so that it can be done conveniently.
 
 
Jim Drew wrote:

  The issue with Stunt Track Racer is that the disks were either not commercially produced, or deliberately non-indexed.  My SPLICE routine does not always work because it relies on there being an actual write splice (smeared flux transition which occurs when turning off the writing of the head).  There are some cases where it just so happens to be that the smear perfectly overlaps the next bit cell so a write splice is not apparent.  I have to improve the SPLICE routine to actually look at the MFM structure like I did with Supercard Ami.  You can of course copy this manually track by track, but I think that HxC should have no problem re-indexing the disk.  I will take a look at it.
 

 
  I consider myself a reasonably patient person, but any chance I'm not going to have to wait another three years for you to look at this?

Noo..not three years man. Come on! Jeeze, get your calculation right! - slaps hand with the other hand - You cannot be spitting wrong data like that!

It is 8,500,210 years of waiting time. Get the figures correct! Please!

= Mumbles out of the room, "3 years! Huh! Some people miscalculate! I tell's ya!" =


Jim Drew
Learn who I am!
Posts 67/ 1
21 Nov 2019 04:29


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Here we can see the following:
 
  - MAC OS 8.1
  - using 64bit FPU
  - running with Shapeshifter
 
  CLICK HERE   
  So what do we see here?

What we see here is Shapeshifter using the lower accuracy Mac system resource.  Advanced PACK4 and PACK5 is not being used for FPU calculations by Shapeshifter.  FUSION replaces the PACK4 and PACK5 resources, per Apple's guidelines.  This *requires* 80 bit precision, and one of the reasons why FUSION's FPU benchmarks are so much faster than a real Mac (and Shapeshifter).  It's the very reason why Amiga/EMPLANT systems replaced real Mac systems used by Amblin Entertainment to run Avid Video Suites.  The rendering with my code is about 2.5 times faster than the same speed Mac.  When studios had to pay up to $25,000 per day for rendering time, it was far cheaper to buy an Amiga w/EMPLANT board and do it in house.  This is what several movie studios did.




Jim Drew
Learn who I am!
Posts 67/ 1
21 Nov 2019 06:46


sean sk wrote:

I wouldn't even begin to know how to, or where to set the start and end flux points. I would much rather see this issue fixed so that it can be done conveniently.

I don't consider this an "issue" to fix since the image works in WinUAE and you can create a disk manually.  I know exactly why the image to disk does not work, but I was not too motivated to make the changes because I know that you don't actually own this program (you admitted to downloading the image from a repo).  I will see about implementing a quick change to see that works in all cases.  I am actually adding a feature right now to the editor/analyzer to be able to "rotate" a track by selecting a location and clicking on a button.  This would let you easily make a disk INDEX'd and so manually creating a disk would be quicker.




Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4894
21 Nov 2019 07:25


Jim Drew wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Here we can see the following:
   
  - MAC OS 8.1
  - using 64bit FPU
  - running with Shapeshifter
   
  CLICK HERE   
  So what do we see here?
 

 
What we see here is Shapeshifter using the lower accuracy Mac system resource. 

Jim the other day, you said this:
Jim Drew wrote:

Even with UAE (FS-UAE, WinUAE, etc.) it requires that "80-bit softfloat" be selected in order for any Mac emulator to work correctly.

You are contradiction yourself.




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1717
21 Nov 2019 07:53


Jim Drew wrote:

  I know exactly why the image to disk does not work, but I was not too motivated to make the changes because I know that you don't actually own this program (you admitted to downloading the image from a repo).  I will see about implementing a quick change to see that works in all cases. 
 

 
  Bad thing, missing a motivation when bug is discovered.
 
  When you gonna get one, and fix it? In capitalism (and even in socialism) knowledge is nothing without application :)
 
  Mind that pirate boys are actually giving YOU a favor here by bug reporting.

How is Vampirizing Fusion and PCx?
 


Nixus Minimax

Posts 416
21 Nov 2019 08:53



None of this seems to make any sense. I'll try to analyse this semantically:

Jim Drew wrote:

  What we see here is Shapeshifter using the lower accuracy Mac system resource.  Advanced PACK4 and PACK5 is not being used for FPU calculations by Shapeshifter.

This translates to:

Shapeshifter works because it does not use ludicrously high precision for very simple things.

Shapeshifter does not use PACK4 and PACK5. (This could mean that PACK4 and PACK5 are what demands ludicrously high precision to calculate very simple things).

FUSION replaces the PACK4 and PACK5 resources,

FUSION doesn't use PACK4 and PACK5 either but contrary to Shapeshifter shows buggy behaviour.

per Apple's guidelines.

Apple does not want anybody to use PACK4 and PACK5 (why?). Both Shapeshifter and FUSION follow these guidelines.

This *requires* 80 bit precision,

What "this"? Your replacement code? Previously you had stated that you don't know why the ludicrously high precision is needed and now it turns out it is your own code that requires it?

and one of the reasons why FUSION's FPU benchmarks are so much faster than a real Mac (and Shapeshifter).

(Marketing blabla deleted). You replaced Apple code with your own code but you don't know why your code does not work with less than 80bit precision. But you do know that it is much faster.

This reminds me of many patches to AmigaOS that are supposed to make it (crash) much faster.

BTW, your claim about FUSION being so much faster than Shapeshifter still requires verification. And even if it was, obviously your changes or optimisations make the code more susceptible for strange behaviour that do not seem to have any reasonable explanation (see above: more precision than required to calculate the number of human hair diameters covering the distance from here to the Moon, yet the precision is not enough to calculate window coordinates and slider positions in a lowres GUI).




Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
21 Nov 2019 10:06


Was shapeshifter named after Jim's bullshit stories?

His self modifying excuse for bad emulation aside, I'm very interested in how he says avid worked on an emplant. Avid on 68k macs required a lot of specialist nubus cards because editing video on an actual 68040 is completely impossible.


Sean Sk

Posts 379
21 Nov 2019 11:49


Jim Drew wrote:

I was not too motivated to make the changes because I know that you don't actually own this program (you admitted to downloading the image from a repo).

 
I beg your pardon?
 
If you had ACTUALLY read my forum post on your CBMStuff Forum then you would have read I had actually purchased Stunt TRACK Racer (USA version of Stunt CAR Racer) but the disk was not working. I had grabbed an SCP dump of that disk from the RETROBACKUP FTP server that YOU YOURSELF promoted in your forum (HOW ELSE WOULD I HAVE FOUND OUT ABOUT IT!!) The image had been created by another Supercard Pro user and I downloaded it in the hopes of repairing my disk, but I COULDN'T WRITE IT TO DISK! There was also a Stunt CAR Racer SCP image also on Retrobackup FTP server that also was not indexed.
 
Since that time I had purchased a good known working original of Stunt CAR Racer. In post #17 in your forum I had mentioned that I had other retail games that were also not indexed when manufactured including "Stunt CAR Racer". I had imaged this copy and found that it was not indexed in the same way that the other two images created by the other SCP users was not indexed. So that makes 3 images of Stunt TRACK/CAR Racer that show that this game was not manufactured with the splice indexed.
 
So rather than getting on your moral high horse, how about fixing the issue. AND YES THERE IS AN ISSUE!


Thellier Alain

Posts 118
21 Nov 2019 13:35


Can someone only summarize:

- What mac emu CURRENTLY works on Vampire ? ShapeShifter, Fusion, other ? (Basilisk? SheepShaver ?)

- On what Vampire model/core ? public one ?

I mean if I receive my vampire v4 stand alone in december then what mac emul will works on it ?

Note: I have seen shapeshifter works well at the Alchemy demo party but perhaps some little bugs remain...




Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4894
21 Nov 2019 14:30


thellier alain wrote:

Can someone only summarize:
 
  - What mac emu CURRENTLY works on Vampire ? ShapeShifter, Fusion, other ? (Basilisk? SheepShaver ?)

Shapeshifter works very good.
I can greatly recommend it.
Its fast, totally stable,
MAC OS really runs super.

thellier alain wrote:

  - On what Vampire model/core ? public one ?

Every Vampire

thellier alain wrote:

  I mean if I receive my vampire v4 stand alone in december then what mac emul will works on it ?
 
  Note: I have seen shapeshifter works well at the Alchemy demo party but perhaps some little bugs remain...

MAC OS runs super.

My son has played many MAC Games (e.g. Warcraft) for endless hours with it.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1717
21 Nov 2019 16:14


They all work, Shapeshifter being faster and Fusion likely more slow and buggy (since v2 does not have needed FPU just for Fusion).
     
      Its on Jim to catch and become lead, if the ever finds motivation.
     
     
Kyle Blake wrote:

      Was shapeshifter named after Jim's bullshit stories?
     

     
     
      No, but for now it seems Jim has the capitalist lead
      in "shapeshifting" responsibility, hardwork and code improvement to a target hardware, not other way around.
   
    Also, Jim was one of few developers to ask for Coffin removal (hope I am correct here), but has not so far offered Fusion for sale or offered any kind of Vampire improved version (which he has promised now 2 years ago). I recon IP, but I fail to see how damage can be done to something that is not or market and abandoned by creator - no longer fixed and in development.
 
  Big companies like Impulse and NewTek freed Amiga LW, Real3D, Imagine as too old and abandoned (by giving agreement to AmiKit inclusion, free distribution or simply by not enforcing IP).


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1717
23 Nov 2019 08:33


(moved to PCx x86 thread)
 
  Has Jim made any decisions on 080 Fusion version
  or he is still with ISO mounter and few trickery to bump the number, no under the hood check?
     
  OK, product would be on sale again, and possibility for few bucks more to pack price and integration to AmiKit XE and AmigaForever is advised. Or with OS 3.2 :) Its not 10+10 worth if not being reborn as for Vampires bride :)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1717
31 Dec 2019 12:44


@Jim Drew

Jim, is this correct as of December 2019?
Any news of patched, updated Fusion and PCx?

Since GOLD2, Fusion and Shapeshifter don't work anymore (even with RsrvWarm/Cold or PrepareEmul).
What can I do ?
A:  Our exec.library reserves correct amount of memory the same way as RsrvWarm/Cold/PrepareEmul did.
Only thing it doesn't do is moving the VBR to FastRAM. We recommend use of tools like VBRControl
to move it to FastRAM.



Sean Sk

Posts 379
31 Dec 2019 14:23


Vojin, don't expect a reply from Jim, as I suspect he won't be back on this forum any time soon.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1717
31 Dec 2019 22:10


sean sk wrote:

Vojin, don't expect a reply from Jim, as I suspect he won't be back on this forum any time soon.

Mailed the man, blames the Vampire exec

You can't just reserve memory.  There are steps that have to be done, including changing the VBR.
It MUST be done exactly like what RsrvWarm does or the Mac will never work properly... no
exceptions.  So, put the exec.library back to how Commodore made it and call it good.  There is
nothing I can do to fix your exec.library changes to work with FUSION.



Barana V

Posts 55
02 Jan 2020 12:55


sean sk wrote:

  Vojin, don't expect a reply from Jim, as I suspect he won't be back on this forum any time soon.
 

 
  If Vox spoke to me the same way he spoke to that guy I would have wiped him too. 
 
  The spirit of the first half of the 20th century is alive, kicking and cultivated here.
 
  If I buy a vampire do I get turned into something that goes for the Jugular like everyone here did?
  Yikes!


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1717
02 Jan 2020 13:00



Jim did answer: "I expect it to happen in the next 30 days."

Barana V wrote:
   
      If Vox spoke to me the same way he spoke to that guy I would have wiped him too. 
   

   
    No whips please
   
    Jim is no guy I feel pleasentry / convinience wasting is needed. I can be way more socially likable in flash and spirit :) In fact he is the one promising and not deliverying anything :)
 
  But, there is A NEW HOPE (yeah, like in Star Wars).Jim sais:
 
  "There will be new versions made available for sale in the near future.  I am working out some
  details with several different FPGA Amiga emulation authors."
   
 
Barana V wrote:

    If I buy a vampire do I get turned into something that goes for the Jugular like everyone here did?
    Yikes!
 

 
  I am no good example, I had this Serbian "direct approach" to problems, way before Vampires have arrived. Simple dislike of corporate bull.


Barana V

Posts 55
08 Jan 2020 23:23


:) :) :) EXTERNAL LINK :) :) :)

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