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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Cloantos View On Vampspage  1 2 

Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1716
02 May 2019 17:58


From Steven Jones Mike Battilana /Cloanto Interview 2019
 
  Source EXTERNAL LINK 
  1:05:40 Possibility of a version of workbench/ ROM that would work out of the box with the Vampire range of accelerators or even just the V4 stand alone? Since the Vampire supporters support you blindly are they licensing your ROM copies?
 
  Short answer: Legally currently not possible due to ongoing court case, depending on its end. Cloanto thinks its technically possible (doable).
 
  1:26:00 Iíd like to know what he thinks about the Vampire and the growth of the 68K community in a post-PowerPC age.
 
  Short:Its early to speak about it, but FPGA tech enables this.

1:29:00 I'm planning on buying wb 3.1.4 and ks roms. But who actually owns both? Who should I buy it from? if hyperion is selling them, does he get a commission?

Short: He thinks its "a (legal) mess" and that WB 3.1.4 does not bring any new feats not avail in previous patched 3.1


Stephen A.

Posts 21
04 May 2019 10:02


i thought his answers were really lame

on a personal note, i like wb 3.1.4


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 501
04 May 2019 14:46


Not lame, but surely cautious. When you are engaged in a legal cause you must be very cautious


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1716
04 May 2019 19:33


(Lame answers)
 
  Not really. During the interview he sad they (Cloanto) have 060 optimized patched OS 3.1. That is quite far more feature, then nice theme and date update you probably like in OS 3.1.4
 
  This means if Cloanto "wins" the court case, we might live to see legal and optimized AmigaOS 3.x for Vamps and legally bundled too. Hyperion does not mention that so far. Its a thin chance, but again, best so far.
 
  Surely, answers are restricted by legal case, so it would be interesting to see similar once legal battle is over, to a winner, be it Hyperion or Cloanto.


Michael Nurney

Posts 281
04 May 2019 19:46


Itís interesting to hear mikes take on this and Iíve met him and had chats with people in the know. This is a big thing for the Amiga and hopefully once all this legal bull is out of the way we can see the Amiga back under one umbrella.

Things are happening.

Mike.


Mr Niding

Posts 448
05 May 2019 09:35


Im just going to defere to Steven Jones's ability to judge a person, since I have no way of evaluating Mike myself;

Steven Jones has worked hard and openly with his projects, and when Ive emailed him, hes always answered instantly (as fast as you can expect). Hes extremely helpful.

When I watch his comments and videos, I see a man able to view things from different perspectives/angles, a sign of strong levels of empathy.

SO, given that he seems to voche for Mikes character, that goes a long way for me to trust Mike.

That said; AROS seems like the best way forward, cause these legal issues seems to drag on, and we are not getting any younger.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 650
05 May 2019 12:49


what I understand is he is open but cannot say anything until the court case is finished. So we have all to wait what happens.


Richard Shears

Posts 7
07 May 2019 21:14


I like Steven, really nice genuine guy that has done a lot for the Amiga community. I therefore value and respect his opinion. I therefore look forward with hope that the future will be both interesting and positive.
Iíve not met Mike in person but those that I know who have like him.
Whilst itís frustrating that somethings could not be discussed openly due to the court case, I do understand. Hopefully good things will come to those who wait, and we the Amiga community have waited :-)


Dag Jacobsen

Posts 4
08 May 2019 03:30


Well if Cloanto wins Jens is gone - more room for Vampire that too :-/
 
  Seemed he (Battaliana) nearly said "goddriddance" ... (no need for black/negative individuals? "people leave Amiga all the time", I hope I misinterpreted .. )
 
  And really ... Can anyone see Cloanto doing anything more than launching the Amiga Mini ... (followup to C64 mini..)
   
    I hope Im wrong, but the greed and selfishness of the Amiga universe after Commodore and really starting with Commodore itself has been disgusting .. Tearing a tiny computer to shreds..

Niding: I agree Stephen Jones seems a great guy ! So it does give some trust to M.B. And that there is stuff that cant be spoken about yet due to the suit. But Im very cynical now, 24 years of Amiga history leaves a mark .. If it hadnt been for FPGAs and Jens a lot would not have existed now .. And Dennis Van Weeren :-) Hmm and WinUAE - I wish MB would have answered how much money from AmigaForever has gone to Toni Wilen.


Igor Majstorovic
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 350
08 May 2019 17:22


Ok my 2cents. I m so puzzled about certain things personally. In times before I wasn't even part of Apollo-team my day job was to send number of mails to everyone who had Amiga related company, to the persons who I suspected that have some license rights on anything Amiga related. At first I was thinking that mail addresses are wrong but later on I realized that none of them wanted to talk or they replied after several months with nothing you can hold on. They claimed nothing but same time claiming everything? My assumption was that they are just waiting that someone will do something and then only then they will contact you and ask for the fee. That's exactly how it happened when Apollo-team done something. In our confusion at the beginning we were buying licenses and to this day I have no idea did we send money to the right address, to the persons who actually holds rights. Later, when we started to use Picasso96 from 3 sides we got mails to pay for rights. One person claimed that he owns rights and another person said that he will own rights in the future??? There were also those who claimed that they "know the man" who owns rights and if we pay to them that he will fix problem for us. Childish eh... This created confusion and made everything look anything but professional. Vampire card "luckily does not fragment the scene" or "it's a bit early to talk about it..." Come on Vampire cards story begins 8 years ago, 8 years ago!!! How much more time we need to wait for someone to acknowledge that we did something. Why always word or two or less for us. Do you see that there is no Vampire card listed anywhere on any site who maintains Amiga hardware database :) What also puzzles me is that Amiga software related companies are still ignoring us instead of joining the game. If it's all about the profit they could make a fortune by selling software to growing Apollo-core community. It will pass another 8 years, big players will again find ways to fight each others and waste energy on that same time ignoring Apollo platform or at best case like they did it before make offers with hidden agendas. It does not matter who is right or who will win at the end but surely Amiga will lose once more.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1716
08 May 2019 21:10


I do clearly remember that part of Vampires World Presentation Interview, with added bonus of charming Banja Luka style humor instead of frustration. Very sad Apollo wants it all "legal,nice and dandy" and gets silence and/or abuse.
   
    I largely believe it depends on "in whos hands" rights are, no matter we had almost nothing but milking companies since CBM demise, and even a bit before.
    So, would love to see Cloanto wins and gets at least enhanced (really) OS 3.1, 060/080 optimized and enriched with legalised contribs, like with AmiKit,Amiga Forever,MagicWB ... packages, and a bit better and more usefull then OS 3.5,OS 3.9 or OS 3.1.4
   
    That would be the Nostalgia Titan OS, bundled in similar fashion like Coffin, but install-able, clearer and better customization like easy menu add ins, uninstallable, multiuser, easily backupable (all to LZX,LHA and re-beckap tool), updatable via dedicated server in similar but better fashion then OS4 Updater and working nice with USB installs, SSDs, largest drives and offering latest PFS and FFS as standard, no OFS/SLB and similar even as option but old file systems readable if connected as second drive/card etc.
    Nicely updatable OS and all its apps like Linux updaters or Grunch on MOS. Nothing revolutionary, but best of what we have done so far incl. community, Aminet cherry-picks and latest versions from authors.
MorphOS idea of loading packed file and unpacking install, was greatest speed up in AmigaOS like installs. Insteads of coping thousands of files from slow CDs and floppies etc. why not from RAM? Vamps with 128-512mb offer space for that too!
   
    That, and AROS m68k backported from AROS x64 (so 080 MMX optimized) would be a great bundle. Seems updated document editor will first come to AROS x64. That could be backported, as well as browser and two finest Amiga curses are down.
   
    Find and customize last m68k Debian, browser and office and that might become a great little bitting Vamp.

However, even 1) fails approaches 2) and 3) might work in bringing productivity software to a Vamp.
   


Tim Trepanier

Posts 107
09 May 2019 01:38


My 2 cents on how to move the Amiga forward:

Regardless of who has/gets the rights to AmigaOS this is the approach i'd like to see:

1. AmigaOS 3.1.4 is a move in the right direction. Create and release version 3.2 that continues the approach of bug fixes and adding minor but important features. For example 3.1.4 allows >4BG drives but requires too much RAM and time to validate large drives during bootup.

2. Low end Amiga's are too slow and limited to properly handle some features. I'd like an enhanced AmigaOS version for enhanced Amiga's. For example, a 68000 CPU isn't fast enough to anti-alias text to make it more readable. An 030 CPU with fast RAM would enable that and much more. Lets put our accelerators to use.

3. Money from every Vampire sale should be put aside to help fund a Vampire optimized AmigaOS. Optimizing the AmigaOS and adding features for the Vampire to really shine is a huge project. This work would have to be spread over several versions. Releases need to be far enough apart to include noticeable improvements but not so far apart that users feel abandoned as they wait for the next release.

Finally, as a programmer, i want to stress the importance of including features in the OS as opposed to having them available through a hack on Aminet.

AmigaOS really needs a modern and complete system for developers to easily make a GUI. Not gadtools or MUI or some other addon. But something integrated into the OS that i know will be available on every system of at least a certain version. Right now applications require you to install some third party package for the software to make a GUI. Or, like in the case of PageStream, they developed their own GUI system.

Having hacks to support TrueType fonts, or UTF-8 encoding or other features on Aminet doesn't properly support developers. Features need to be properly integrated into the OS and available to every program.

Thank you for your time... now i'm sure the roasters will find a way to roast me while most people give it some thought without saying anything.


Sean Sk

Posts 378
09 May 2019 04:54


Tim,
 
I think your points are very valid.
 
I agree with Majsta's assessment that software developers are ignoring the Vampire. It would be nice to have a Vampire optimized OS 3.1.4 (or upwards).
 
All that need's to happen is for people buy a lisence and then have available a variety of downloads ranging from a 68000 version right up to a AMMX 68080 version. Therefore if someone removes their Vampire from their A500/A600 etc they can install the 68000 version.
 
The thing that disappoints me most about the Mike Battilana interview is that he avoids answering certain questions and hides behind the lawsuit for not answering these questions directly, especially hardware questions.
 
i.e questions that were asked:
 
Now that you own all the IP, will you be looking to create a rebirth machine range including entry level A500/A1200 equivalent, and if yes, would you consider the classic micro computer form factor?? and If so would you be looking to work with existing hardware manufacturers (A-EON, Apollo etc) or would you try to do it "in house"?

 
Are you going to reach out to hardware developers, and what support will you be offering?

 
Now even if he couldn't outline definite and concrete plans because the lawsuit was still going, he could still reassure the community by making comments such as:
 
"If I had my way, I would love to reach out to hardware manufacturers and encourage new and progressive hardware development to further advance the Amiga platform."
 
This way it wouldn't violate anything to do with the lawsuit and it would reassure the community that Amiga would not stagnate, due to nostalgia, based on the fact that he wants to keep selling his existing Kickstart lisences along with Amiga Forever.
 
To also say that Amiga OS 3.1.4 adds nothing new over and above what he sells is absolute rubbish.... it adds convenience for starters!
 
Note to Stephen Jones:
 
I have a deep respect for you bro, you have done awesome things for the Amiga community and I really appreciate your interview, but just felt that some of the more important issues were skirted around.


Stephen A.

Posts 21
09 May 2019 05:14


sean sk wrote:

The thing that disappoints me most about the Mike Battilana interview is that he avoids answering certain questions and hides behind the lawsuit for not answering these questions directly, especially hardware questions.

agreed!

sean sk wrote:

To also say that Amiga OS 3.1.4 adds nothing new over and above what he sells is absolute rubbish.... it adds convenience for starters!

agreed!



Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 190
09 May 2019 11:46


sean sk wrote:

The thing that disappoints me most about the Mike Battilana interview is that he avoids answering certain questions and hides behind the lawsuit for not answering these questions directly, especially hardware questions.

I don't know if he hid out of necessity or not.  I don't really feel like I gained any useful insights from his answers.  It felt like he wasn't really attempting to answer the questions at all at in some cases.

sean sk wrote:

I have a deep respect for you bro, you have done awesome things for the Amiga community and I really appreciate your interview, but just felt that some of the more important issues were skirted around.

Agreed.  And less tangential banter would have made the 2 hours perhaps much shorter and far more consumable.  Just simply edit the video and give focus to the core of the answers.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1716
11 May 2019 19:34


Steven announced he will do the same type of interview with Hyperion and MOS team.

EXTERNAL LINK 
Please email your questions to steve@imica.net 
It would be nice if you could support him on Patreon especially for these interviews as the costs of a little high LOL


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
11 May 2019 19:52


sean sk wrote:

Tim,
 
I think your points are very valid.
 
I agree with Majsta's assessment that software developers are ignoring the Vampire. It would be nice to have a Vampire optimized OS 3.1.4 (or upwards).
 

I don't think developers are intentionally ignoring the Vampire.  There is a two-fold problem when it comes to software development that targets the Vampire.  The first is hardware availability, which is the lesser of the two problems and can be remedied easily.  The other problem is that there is a lack of development tools for coders who want to take advantage of the Vampire's new hardware features.  Most developers code in C/C++ and have neither the time nor the desire to learn 68080/AMMX assembly language.

Until we have an optimizing C/C++ compiler that generates 68080/AMMX binaries then the dearth of Vampire-specific apps will continue.



John William

Posts 467
12 May 2019 14:34


Steve Ferrell wrote:

sean sk wrote:

  Tim,
   
  I think your points are very valid.
   
  I agree with Majsta's assessment that software developers are ignoring the Vampire. It would be nice to have a Vampire optimized OS 3.1.4 (or upwards).
   
 

 
  I don't think developers are intentionally ignoring the Vampire.  There is a two-fold problem when it comes to software development that targets the Vampire.  The first is hardware availability, which is the lesser of the two problems and can be remedied easily.  The other problem is that there is a lack of development tools for coders who want to take advantage of the Vampire's new hardware features.  Most developers code in C/C++ and have neither the time nor the desire to learn 68080/AMMX assembly language.
 
  Until we have an optimizing C/C++ compiler that generates 68080/AMMX binaries then the dearth of Vampire-specific apps will continue.
 

Dearth is a word? O_O



Gilles Dridi

Posts 34
12 May 2019 15:40


Hello,

On France, in « french property laws », if I understood well, intellectual property is protected for a much longer period than material invention thatís brevets or « patents » in USA.
Thatís in France for INPI, your rights for a brevet is/was twenty five years [25] of exclusive industrial exploitation but at INPI you can deposit « brands and models » (drawings) for approximately the same amount of time (I suppose) to go along with exploitation of an invention. In USA, it is fuzzy because a drawing can served to « patent » a « design ».
Now, thereís the limit of seventy five years [75] for intellectual property that is not industrial exploitation but just selling roughly and packaging (like musical records) ! But apart from « brands and drawings » INPI can do nothing for you in legal claiming of violation of so called copyrights (c). Just a hire a lawyer and proved you were the first into publishment : magazine, articles in review or manifestation like foire or exposition (this was the case for fonts or typographies characters but that changed ten years ago with OMPI in ... Swiss-land ! a bad joke).
Today we have dematerialized payment like PayPal and we can send a small or big amount of money to which seems to be the authors : the individual or personae in Latin ? This becomes clear in 1990 with feeds to Amiga public domain authors of shareware programs and even freeware !

Thatís all I can say for a French perspective(s)

DGILLES


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
12 May 2019 17:39


John William wrote:

 
 
  Dearth is a word? O_O
 
 

 
 
Yes, it's been part of the English language for centuries. It was first used in the 13th century.
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

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