Overview Features Instructions Performance Forum Downloads Products Reseller Contact

Welcome to the Apollo Forum

This forum is for people interested in the APOLLO CPU.
Please read the forum usage manual.
VISIT APOLLO IRC CHANNEL



All TopicsNewsPerformanceGamesDemosApolloVampireCoffinReleases
Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Vampire 1200 V4 Mediator Compatible?page  1 2 

Sascha Wintz

Posts 7
26 Apr 2018 17:26


Hello,

I am thinking of towerizing a 1200 in an Elbow tower and also getting the Mediator TX. Since I plan to buy a Vampire V4 for it when it comes out, my question is if the Mediator PCI extension is expected to be compatible with the Vampire?

Thank you!


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
01 May 2018 10:35


Sascha Wintz wrote:

my question is if the Mediator PCI extension is expected to be compatible with the Vampire?

 
We have no mediator to test - so maybe yes, maybe no.
 
Just out of curiosity what is the main reason you want to use this card?
What cards do you plan to access with it?



Sascha Wintz

Posts 7
02 May 2018 04:48


Aside from a tv capture card I donít believe there is anything that the vampire wonít have that I can plug in there. I also donít care about the tv card. But the vampire is not out yet, and the elbox tower with mediator looks really sexy. I still would want everything to be functional in the future  if I were to get it.

Please consider a status update for the v4. Even if it still takes another year. Any vampire news is good news.




Wawa T

Posts 473
02 May 2018 09:14


getting mediator because it looks sexy? hmm..
  mediator is certainly useful for
  1. limited 3d capacities (with voodoo) and 2d hi res desktop in hd-range, thanks to rtg card,
  2. overlapping old analog tv signal with said desktop realtime with a tv card (obsolete),
  3. usb solution (only pio) but if you dont have native one, best case deneb, then it might be worth it,
  4. cheap network card
  5. digital sound, i have used hd-rec with it a lot, amiga can be used as a multi track hard disk recorder that way.
 
  now, its not mine to judge to what extent vampire substitutes these functionalities presently, but i think to some extent it does or will do, and thats what i would think about.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
02 May 2018 11:02


wawa t wrote:

1. limited 3d capacities (with voodoo)

Agreed
 
wawa t wrote:

  and 2d hi res desktop in hd-range, thanks to rtg card,

Covered by Vamp
 
wawa t wrote:

  2. overlapping old analog tv signal with said desktop realtime with a tv card (obsolete),

hmm
 
wawa t wrote:

  3. usb solution (only pio) but if you dont have native one, best case deneb, then it might be worth it,

Covered by Vamp.
V4 has USB and the team works on very low cost USB solution for Vamp2 right now.
 
 
 
wawa t wrote:

    4. cheap network card
 

  Covered by Vamp already.
  Also I see here major advantages of the VAMP with options for DMA.
 
 
 
wawa t wrote:

    5. digital sound, i have used hd-rec with it a lot, amiga can be used as a multi track hard disk recorder that way.
 

  Covered by Vamp.
 
 
 
  The Voodoo is a valid point.
  But I wonder how much the "slow" Mediator Bus is a bottleneck.
 
  The VAMP inside its own memory can do > 600 MB/sec
  The Mediator bus will be super slow compared to this.
 
  This slow bus should "kill" several use cases.
  Video playback over a PCI GFX card will be slower than VAMP.
  A number Games running on PCI GFX card will be slower than VAMP.
 


Wawa T

Posts 473
02 May 2018 12:11


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

    The Voodoo is a valid point.
    But I wonder how much the "slow" Mediator Bus is a bottleneck.
   
    The VAMP inside its own memory can do > 600 MB/sec
    The Mediator bus will be super slow compared to this.
   
    This slow bus should "kill" several use cases.
    Video playback over a PCI GFX card will be slower than VAMP.
    A number Games running on PCI GFX card will be slower than VAMP.
   
 

 
  agreed. as i already posted over and over. amiga to mediator memory space is 7mb/s. there are some use cases that it is good enough for. simple 3d is one of them as textures can be located in vram and when only mostly geometry data need to be fed by bus, then its fast enough. however the implementation of gl standards on amiga are incomplete and outdated, so there is not much to gain on this front as of current. especially the vram of voodoo is also rather limited by todays standards.
 
  of course everything that involves frame buffer will be slow with mediator, inclusive video playback. simple calculation reveals that only low res can be played on full framerate, uncompressed pal or ntsc over zorro3, which is what mediator connects to, are out of question, no matter cpu speed. and this also affects sdl 2d games.
 
therefore static high resolution, where not much changes on the screen, such as workbench; is primary advantage of this solution.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
02 May 2018 12:50


wawa t wrote:

therefore static high resolution, where not much changes on the screen, such as workbench; is primary advantage of this solution.

VAMP can drive resolutions of 720p, 1080p
and SAGA can in theory drive even 4K picture.

For 720p and 1080p having the "right" monitor might help.
Many TV and Monitor show the VAMP signals well.

For 4K picture it would be very funny if we could test and find a monitors which are compatible and display the VAMP 4K signal.



Markus B

Posts 38
02 May 2018 15:32


I thought the Vampire cards were only good for 720p50/60 signals because the integrated DIGITAL-VIDEO solution can't handle higher clock rates?

So 1080p50/60 or even 2160p50/60 can be used?


Marlon Beijer

Posts 111
02 May 2018 15:41


I would use a mediator simply because why not, even if it is redundant. :D


Jan Vonka

Posts 58
02 May 2018 19:44


There are already succesfull tests of G4 cards in Mediator 1200 (http://amigafun.blogspot.cz/). Some of the new ports have been made for G3/G4 cards like Hexen2 and Quake3, some are planned. Why not to have ultimate Amiga with Vampire4, Mediator, G4+256MB, Voodoo3


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 340
02 May 2018 21:13


Markus B wrote:

I thought the Vampire cards were only good for 720p50/60 signals because the integrated DIGITAL-VIDEO solution can't handle higher clock rates?

v4 Vamps have built in DIGITAL-VIDEO amplifier,as well as repeaters/amplifiers can be used with v2



Mallagan Bellator

Posts 349
03 May 2018 00:05


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

   
 
wawa t wrote:

    2. overlapping old analog tv signal with said desktop realtime with a tv card (obsolete),
 

  hmm
   
   

I have this setup, with a Mediator 1200 SX and a tv card running on voodoo 3 card, as you might remember that Iíve said before, Gunnar?

Itís pretty cool. You can put the AGA mode in a freely scalable window on the workbench and play games that way. Iíve done this for 15+ years



Mallagan Bellator

Posts 349
03 May 2018 00:08


Jan Vonka wrote:

There are already succesfull tests of G4 cards in Mediator 1200 (http://amigafun.blogspot.cz/). Some of the new ports have been made for G3/G4 cards like Hexen2 and Quake3, some are planned. Why not to have ultimate Amiga with Vampire4, Mediator, G4+256MB, Voodoo3

I would like to do this as well, it would be cool, and also have a V4


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 349
03 May 2018 00:11


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

wawa t wrote:

  therefore static high resolution, where not much changes on the screen, such as workbench; is primary advantage of this solution.
 

 
  VAMP can drive resolutions of 720p, 1080p
  and SAGA can in theory drive even 4K picture.
 
  For 720p and 1080p having the "right" monitor might help.
  Many TV and Monitor show the VAMP signals well.
 
  For 4K picture it would be very funny if we could test and find a monitors which are compatible and display the VAMP 4K signal.
 

I can remember you and me talking about the vampire not being able to show 1080p in 60 Hz, now youíre talking about 2160p?
What refresh rate would that be in?
Did I miss any news?



Markus B

Posts 38
03 May 2018 08:08


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

v4 Vamps have built in DIGITAL-VIDEO amplifier,as well as repeaters/amplifiers can be used with v2

It's not about amplifying the signal, but the HW to be able to generate the necessary pixel clock rate.
I thought the HW was limited to not exceed a maximum clock rate.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
03 May 2018 13:04


Markus B wrote:

I thought the Vampire cards were only good for 720p50/60 signals because the integrated DIGITAL-VIDEO solution can't handle higher clock rates?
 
  So 1080p50/60 or even 2160p50/60 can be used?

No one said 60 Hz.

FULLHD at 24/25/30 Hz are valid frequencies which the Vampire can drive.


Wawa T

Posts 473
03 May 2018 14:48


i dont remember actual values but displaying 1680x1050 vith voodoo has also required tweaks of sceenmode prefs according frequencies, which may be just within tolerance of an monitor. cranking down the sync even down to 24hz is still probably a better option, considewring the bus can still fluently feed frame buffer, which it wouldnt with mediator and vood at full high resolution and full refresh moving picture.


Markus B

Posts 38
03 May 2018 15:18


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  No one said 60 Hz.
 
  FULLHD at 24/25/30 Hz are valid frequencies which the Vampire can drive.

OK, not thought about those.
So for 2160p24 it's roughly 200 MHz pixel clock rate?


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 349
04 May 2018 21:12


wawa t wrote:

i dont remember actual values but displaying 1680x1050 vith voodoo has also required tweaks of sceenmode prefs according frequencies, which may be just within tolerance of an monitor. cranking down the sync even down to 24hz is still probably a better option, considewring the bus can still fluently feed frame buffer, which it wouldnt with mediator and vood at full high resolution and full refresh moving picture.

I have a mediator 1200 SX and voodoo 3 card, I run 1920x1080 at 60 Hz on it, no problem


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
04 May 2018 21:40


Mallagan Bellator wrote:

I have a mediator 1200 SX and voodoo 3 card, I run 1920x1080 at 60 Hz on it, no problem

 
The main problem /bottleneck is not the GFX card but the mediator bus.
 
A truecolor 32bit image in 1920x1080 is 8 MB of size
If as Wawa said that the Bus of the Mediator reaches 7 MB/sec
then you get not even one 1 FPS update speed to the GFX card.
 
7 MB/sec Mediator Bus speed would be very slow
if you compare this to the speed of the Vampire memory.
On the Vampire we talk about 600 MB/sec


posts 32page  1 2