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Mr Niding

Posts 459
15 Aug 2017 11:32


Ferrels;

I dont see any reason why we would argue about the merits of the ApolloOS vs piracy.
We are all grownups here, so we understand the fineprint and lines regarding this. Trying to defend, rightfully or not, is a waste of time.

Most of us have already purchased several versions of AOS3.x and 4.x, and those that hypotetically would download/use ApolloOS wont feel particuarly bad about the situation.

Im just talking hypotetically here now. None of the users on this forum would ever consider downloading ApolloOS.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 424
15 Aug 2017 18:51


Mr Niding wrote:

Ferrels;
 
  I dont see any reason why we would argue about the merits of the ApolloOS vs piracy.
  We are all grownups here, so we understand the fineprint and lines regarding this. Trying to defend, rightfully or not, is a waste of time.
 
  Most of us have already purchased several versions of AOS3.x and 4.x, and those that hypotetically would download/use ApolloOS wont feel particuarly bad about the situation.
 
  Im just talking hypotetically here now. None of the users on this forum would ever consider downloading ApolloOS.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone.  I'm merely pointing out that folks over at A.org and AW are pointing fingers at Vampire users and the Apollo Team and accusing them of piracy....that's all.  There is a profound lack of maturity displayed by a handful of people on those two sites who constantly troll copyright/piracy issues.  Thankfully, they haven't decided to join us here....yet.


Das Audiowerk

Posts 5
15 Aug 2017 19:11


Steve Ferrell wrote:

 
   
    I'm not trying to argue with anyone.  I'm merely pointing out that folks over at A.org and AW are pointing fingers at Vampire users and the Apollo Team and accusing them of piracy....that's all.  There is a profound lack of maturity displayed by a handful of people on those two sites who constantly troll copyright/piracy issues.  Thankfully, they haven't decided to join us here....yet.
 
 

 
 
  And even if they appear here I would please propose to admins
    that such persons have no permissions to contaminate this
  forum with "Mordor language" of those two earlier mentioned
    portals. I remember myself posting few posts, few years ago
  on them ( about natami and lifewish to see arm or fpga based
    amiga mainboard ) where after almost a few minutes they apear with flaming and trolling replys. After the V4 comes out, this
    forum will grow exponentialy. So, either to open then non
    developer "consumer grade" forum here or to keep eye on flame
    trollers who will also migrate here just to sabotage peacefull
  fpga Amiga enviroment.
 
  Sorry for being offtopic but i had to say this. If needed, admin
  pls delete post. 
 
  tHnx
 
  _
  d. 
 


David Wright

Posts 373
15 Aug 2017 20:02


Are you sure you aren't reading those selectively?
Always a few on any thread.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 424
15 Aug 2017 20:16


David Wright wrote:

    Are you sure you aren't reading those selectively?
    Always a few on any thread.
   

   
    No, yesterday a couple of AW/A.org  users (Beans & utri007) accused the Apollo Team and Vampire users in general of piracy and copyright infringement over links to ApolloOS being allowed to remain in the Vampire forums.  I explained to those 2 individuals that most if not all Vampire users already own copies of OS3.x since a Vampire requires a working Amiga....and every Amiga sold came bundled with a licensed copy of the OS.  One of those users started calling me an idiot and then accused me of encouraging and participating in piracy.  There are a handful of lunatics who troll A.org and AW who make visiting there almost intolerable.  They invariably turn every thread into a legal discussion about copyright infringement and piracy.  I really am starting to believe that they are paid or encouraged by Hyperion to do that, especially since Hyperion has sent takedown requests to anyone distributing OS3.x and started selling "official" OS3 updates.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
15 Aug 2017 20:25


Steve Ferrell wrote:

    I really am starting to believe that they are paid or encouraged by Hyperion to do that, especially since Hyperion has sent takedown requests to anyone distributing OS3.x and started selling "official" OS3 updates.
   

   
    Wouldnt go that far, there are believers in copyright etc. per se.
   
    But, Apollo is nice compilation I could do on my own with much time waste and effort. But Kudos for nice start, way better then vanilla OS 3.5,OS 3.9 to that matter. In many aspects then OS 4.1FE+Enhancer with all addons.
 
  Not a real new product - and its free :-) Most of software included is no longer on sale, and mostly in ownership of most of users, add few minuses and pluses.
   
    And I invite Hype and co to sue me as end user for piracy and see how that goes :-) To best of my knowledge, there is no Hype code in it.


David Wright

Posts 373
15 Aug 2017 21:21


Well, one of those goes by another name on Amiga.org.
A more contentious and insulting person I have had the displeasure to interact with. Your mother, political and religious beliefs all come into play after that.

Do what you want, follow your own conscience. How many times do I have to pony up for music that I have purchased as vinyl records, cd, mp3 and Itunes format just to satisfy these types.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
15 Aug 2017 21:55


David Wright wrote:

    Well, one of those goes by another name on Amiga.org.
      A more contentious and insulting person I have had the displeasure to interact with. Your mother, political and religious beliefs all come into play after that.
   

   
    Experienced that on AW.net, when critisizing Hype boys.
   
    Gulliver seems to be much persistent in "imagining lawsuits"
    EXTERNAL LINK     
   
    Its interesting to read things like
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    "The use and promotion of operating system software based on pirated code (ApolloOS)? That is a problem." (Iggy).
   
   
    Which pirated code? :-) If I remember well, even OS4 used some AROS code and NEVER reached full OS 3.9 baseline maturity, much of current 4.1.8 (Enhanced!) being third party :-)
   
    However he drops the HW side:
   
    "NXP actually allows Coldfire V1 to be incorporated into designs free of charge.
    And I've never heard of anyone facing legal challenges for recreating 68K functionality in FPGAS.
    In fact, many companies selling proprietary cores for the 6809 and the 68000, so I don't see this as being a serious problem."
   
  P.S. Funniest things in life are those "unreal".
 
  Professionally, Mr. Hermans is an expert in "dispute resolution"
 
  EXTERNAL LINK


Chris Dennett

Posts 67
16 Aug 2017 10:51


I thought ApolloOS wasn't even distributed by the team (it's an unofficial distribution), so I don't know why it should cause any problem for the project as a whole. It shouldn't be getting distributed by the team with new Vampires sold anywhere. Anyone who sells their old Vampires are welcome to do whatever they want when selling, and be liable for it.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 424
16 Aug 2017 18:13


Chris Dennett wrote:

I thought ApolloOS wasn't even distributed by the team (it's an unofficial distribution), so I don't know why it should cause any problem for the project as a whole. It shouldn't be getting distributed by the team with new Vampires sold anywhere. Anyone who sells their old Vampires are welcome to do whatever they want when selling, and be liable for it.

You are correct.  It was explained to the chuckle heads over at A.org and AW that ApolloOS isn't being hosted, distributed or even endorsed by the Apollo Team but facts don't mean anything to them.  They're like rabid dogs.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
17 Aug 2017 08:30


Steve Ferrell wrote:

    You are correct.  It was explained to the chuckle heads over at A.org and AW that ApolloOS isn't being hosted, distributed or even endorsed by the Apollo Team but facts don't mean anything to them.  They're like rabid dogs.

 
  All true. Seems their Point is to render standalone with Apollo "suable" and no-sw-package-all-to-user. Since there is no way to stop its spread (and legality) on A500,A600 ...
 
  Just because all Amiga users have to be masochists.
  And IP bitches.
 
  Well, not I in this days and time.
------------------
Fixed r43 image (use at your own risk!)
 
  From FB Vampire users group:
 
  "found block errors in apollo r43 beneath steel sky cd32
  with pfs tools in temp directory"
 
  fixed torrent EXTERNAL LINK   
--------------------------------

  Also, seems VampireBoot really needs a tune up to boot ApolloSD from SD. Hope feature will come alongside GOLD3 or as separate VampireBoot update.
 

Has anyone tried to span the SD image to a 32GB IDE HDD partition? :-)


James Igou

Posts 12
17 Aug 2017 21:18


Thanks Niding,
It just bugs me.
I've known Gunnar for years, and I wholly support this project.
If I'm erring on the side of caution about ApolloOS, so be it, I've been sued before and don't wish that on anyone.

But I NEVER suggested this was a core project.
And I'll try to back off, since you don't need your site polluted by the 'moo-bunny' frame of mind present in so many other places.

To Gunnar and the rest of the team...keep it up, you're impressing the hell out of me.

To anyone that want to defame me, you'll only encourage me to crawl up your ass.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
17 Aug 2017 21:26


James Igou wrote:

  That's your business, I'll just use OS 3.1.
  I'd rather stab you in the face.
 

 
  Ah! What kind of self-masocishsm is that?
  Wouldnt use plain OS 3.1 even on plain A1200 >:-)

  At least some Magic, MUI, Magellan is needed to escape CBM minimalism.
 
  No,no. You really shouldnt stab people.
 
  Maybe you should try that dirty ApolloOS?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
17 Aug 2017 21:54


James Igou wrote:

  And, it should be noted that the Vampire card IS offered with a completely legitimate copy of OS3.1 (as an option).
 

 
  Dont worry, Amedia and other Amiga vendors already supply OS 3.1 legally for FPGA based systems. Not that I would love to pay once again, if I would pay for something it would be Apollo, for all the effort and end user experience.
 
  Even better, its offered free, and just because of it I will buy OS 3.9 first, so you can shut up.

Its YOUR choice NOT to use it.


Mr Niding

Posts 459
18 Aug 2017 07:43


@James Igou

You havent offended anyone really.

Its just that when posts gets overly emotional, even if someone is responding to something that person feels like a direct attack, its usually a good idea to walk away from the keyboard and either ignore that person OR think of a rational objective response.

What I often see around X forums, is that people people make a good argument for their point of view, then at the end of the post they cant help themselves; by posting subjective crap about x person or a groups prefered hobby/choice of hardware/software.

What good does it? Why not stick to discussing these topics merely on its objective merits. Hardware and software should invite a calm and calculated disucssion since its very clear what it can do and cannot do.
I dont think Jens, Apollo team, AEON, insert random developer are under any illusions about the capability AND limitations of their current projects.

Adding subjective comments like "its all crap, useless, only fanbois would consider using it" etc etc does NOTHING to futher the community.

I should add that this post isnt really directed at YOU spesifically, more a general comment of what Im left with when I read the AOS3 vs AOS4 vs AROS vs Morphos. And 68k vs ppc vs emulation vs x64 discussions. Sometimes I wonder if its the kid of the forum account owner at the keyboard, or if that 40++ year old is actually posting such less than helpful posts which only invite a similar response.

Then you could say "BUT I cant let X person win this discussion, he offended me/my hobby and if I leave now, he has won!!".
So what?! If the person on the other end is being immature/out of line, you can bet that the majority of the readers understand that, and even if you bow out of the discussing to not waste readers and your own time, you have just taken the mature way out imho.
Discussions in reallife is different. People are more inclined to hear you out if you bring good arguments. On forum, XYZ person can just ignore your posts, and counter with driwel, cause it holds no social stigma.

Anyhow, my 2 cents.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
18 Aug 2017 09:56


Was Robin Hood a thief or a hero?
 
I think it does depend on the situation.
 
In 1987 when a game coder tried to make a living from programming AMIGA games, he often got like $2 per sold copy. For this guy it made a big difference whether 20,000 copies are sold or only 10,000 copies because of pirating.
 
But how is the situation with OS 3.9 files today?
Is 3.9 sold somewhere? And how much do the coders get from this?
How much is re-invested to create new programs e.g. OS 3.91?
 
Is AMIGA OS for 68K continuously and regularly developed, updated, and improved? Or are we on 68k in a state like C64?
And is sharing the files to only way to continue?
 


Roman S.

Posts 149
18 Aug 2017 10:21


Gunnar, the problem is not about morality and 'does it decrease the author income' question - but about possible legal actions.

There are a lot of people who do not like the whole Apollo/Vampire - read the FB posts of this new 'Phase 5' company, read forum posts of some PPC fanatics - I suppose people trying to earn something by selling insanely expensive OS4 hardware or OS4 (in reality a stagnant OS) licenses might see the Vampire line of products as a threat. If the 'Apollo Core' starts being associated with the 'ApolloOS', the fact might aid them to hurt the project.




Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
18 Aug 2017 10:25


Roman S. wrote:

Gunnar, the problem is not about morality and 'does it decrease the author income' question - but about possible legal actions.

There is no connection.
ApolloOS has a much todo with VAMPIRE as WinUAE with an IBM PC.
Yes you can run it on the hardware. And thats all.


James Igou

Posts 12
18 Aug 2017 12:10


Actually, I was here years ago.
  At one time, Gunnar and I were talking about cross platform development between NG and Natami.
  Because that's how powerful what you are being given is.
  Its a chance to bring the 68K up to a level its never be to before.
 
  And I used to be a vendor of 68K based business systems.
  I LOVE the idea of a kick ass 68K based platform and might even investigate installing a V2 board into one of our old PT68K4 based computers.
  They only ran at 10 MHz (and they didn't have an fpu either, after all, the 68000 doesn't have that option).
  And an over ten fold improvement in performance?
  That would be f'ing cool.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
18 Aug 2017 16:43


James Igou wrote:

  I stand by what I said about theft, because I have friends who are programmers and your argument that most of the downloaders already own copies of OS3.9 doesn't hold water
 

 
You would have a point if OS 3.9 would not be abandon ware,
and if programmer would get anything from it.
 
But this is not the case or can you name one programmer in the whole world, who looses a single penny for people sharing OS 3.9 ?
 
 

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