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Information about the Apollo CPU and FPU.

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Chain Q

Posts 19
14 Jul 2017 01:43


BTW, to make my point clear: I'm totally buying into the feature itself, and I'm impressed by the quick and nice progress on the software FPU.

But I'm not buying into statements like "are we done" and "once and for all". Because we are never done. Nothing is a silver bullet, and discussion of new or desired things is in large part what drives progress. (If no one would have whined for the FPU, would Vampire have this emu by now? See my point? :)


Steve Ferrell

Posts 424
14 Jul 2017 01:54


nicolas sipieter wrote:

apparently some of you people commenting here,
  didn't understand the part where you could just code like you always did,
  be it for 030, 040 or 060, using rtg or custom chips like you always did,
  do not change a thing it's ok too.
 
  classic amiga programs will run fine on the apollo core.
  so just ignore the new features if they, somehow, scare you.
 
  and, compared to other cpu, apollo core is getting updates, that's true.
  but each new update brings more compatibility and new features also.
  it's not like the usual 68k asm instructions are getting deleted or changed every new update.
 
  the apollo-core is not a moving target.
  some seems to think it's difficult to code for it because the api/instruction set etc would be 'still unfinished' and getting remodeled all the time. that is not the case.
  just code for amiga as you always did and it will be fine.
 
  the changes are happening on new features, or under the hood for the classic features. but for coders it's transparent. it's just business as usual, of course.
   
  soft-fpu for now, hard fpu for later..rome wasn't built in one day.
  i don't understand why you're all nitpicking over nothing.

You're quite right.  There seems to be a handful of people posting here and acting as if they'll be FORCED to code demos on a Vampire as if vintage/classic systems are now somehow being taken off the table.

If they want to continue programming demos and other software on vintage systems they can do so.  If they can't get their hands on vintage hardware they can  always use a MIST, Amiga 1200 Reloaded or FPGAArcade system or even one of the UAE variants.  Getting really tired of the same people whining here about what they think are limitations of the Vampire.....here's an idea, if they don't like the Vampire, they can go buy something else and stop polluting this forum with their constant whining!  They act like there are no other options available.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
14 Jul 2017 05:44


Chain Q wrote:

But I'm not buying into statements like "are we done" and "once and
for all". Because we are never done.

 
The team did not say we are done.
 
You are stating common knowledge that the project will continue.
As known to everyone, this project is a continuously, daily worked on for over 9 years, and has a timeline to finish of total 10 years.
So everyone knows that we are not done yet.
   
Chain Q wrote:

Nothing is a silver bullet, and discussion of new or desired things is in large part what drives progress. (If no one would have whined for the FPU, would Vampire have this emu by now? See my point? :)

   
The EMU was not done by whiners and complainers, but by doers.
And all the things still to do, are already planned on our to-do list. No whiner has any influence on the development.
   
We agree with the public here, that whiners will from now on quickly removed from this community.
The AMIGA needs people that do something not whiners.
 
 
Regarding FEMU, the project is work in progress.
It will surely take 2 more month to fully finish and tune it.
Nevertheless its very impressive what already works fine.
The posts about FEMU are status updates showing this progress, nothing more.
 
People complaining today that some FEMU is not fully finished or not tuned - only put shame on themselves and show their lack of attitude.


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 601
14 Jul 2017 06:16


Chain Q wrote:
Cherry picking a demo which happen to run fast doesn't help, really. Question arise, like it requires the demo runtime or loading/precalc time? Obviously in the second case, the runtime performance won't be compromised. Also, if it only uses a few instructions runtime, that will also be fine, probably. Why is it even necessary to explain these things..?

It seems that demo requires FPU only for loading and precalcing of stuff and this is a why it is an ideal example for the software FPU use. Its purpose is not to be a physical FPU but it allows programs requiring an FPU to run without. Mac had sfpu decades, but femu is the first softfpu for the Amiga and it has no speed comparison target. The speed comparison for the physical FPU is absurd and tells only that idea of softfpu is not understood. Basically femu should work on stock Amiga 1200 too. At least it works on WinUAE with 020.
 


Nixus Minimax

Posts 416
14 Jul 2017 14:56


Chain Q wrote:
No, sorry. Cherry picking a demo which happen to run fast doesn't help, really.

Would you enjoy watching videos of programs that guru because the soft-FPU is missing support for some FPU instruction?




Pedro Cotter
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 308
14 Jul 2017 15:12


AfaOs anyone?
 
 


Mr Niding

Posts 459
14 Jul 2017 19:00


@Pedro Cotter
 
That looks awesome!

You got a recording of AmiKitX in action on the Vampire?


Pedro Cotter
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 308
14 Jul 2017 19:42


Hi Mr. Niding,
I do have a few on my YT channel.
EXTERNAL LINK 
All pre-Femu! Things might have become more interesting now ;-)

Cheers


Sean Sk

Posts 488
15 Jul 2017 02:00


Djole Djole wrote:

  Demo coders are "supposed" to use the target hw to the max, Apollo core IS a moving target since every core release brings news improvements, speed ups, features... If you are going to code like for the original hw, whats the point of coding for Apollo core ? If you code for Apollo core and you want optimal performance, you are going to chase a moving target. A500 OCS and Aga with 060 is not changing, so all the competitors have the same limitations. Limitations bring the best out....
 

 
  The demoscene would be in a very different place right now had Commodore not gone bankrupt and were actually continuing development on new machines, in other words, their hardware would be a moving target as well. Even in this situation demo coders could still have a choice in determining and settling on certain machine specifications to use when creating competing demos.
 
  This whole demoscene argument is pointless, and this thread needs to go back to being informational on the FPU itself. The Vampire project is what it is and will continue to move forward just as Commodore should have done back in the day but failed to do so.
 
  I think the demoscene is great and all those coders in that community do a fantastic job and should continue with their fine, highly artistic work. But at the end of the day it's up to the demoscene community to determine the "standards" for themselves and chose whether that standard will be, whether it's a "stationary target" such as AGA 68060 or something progressive such as the Vampire. Either way I don't think anyone should be judged or criticized by what standard is set.
 
 


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 586
16 Jul 2017 19:25


@Sean sk
I agree 100% with your post


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 601
17 Jul 2017 09:54


Testing version 0.6 of femu
 

 
EXTERNAL LINK 
 


Mr Niding

Posts 459
17 Jul 2017 10:39


Wow, version 0,6 now. Jari is coding overtime. He doesnt seem to be much of a forumdweller (I do see he got an account here), so say thanks to him for his hard and amazing work!


John Mautz

Posts 35
17 Jul 2017 19:36


Manuel Jesus wrote:

I tried TVPaint 3.6, it now will start and allow the selection of a Vampire screenmode then crashes at registration...
 
  Lightwave 5.0 fp does the same, I can now at least start the apps whereas that wasn't even an option before. We are getting there.

Can you retry with version 0.6?  Honestly I don't have or use these apps, but since they didn't work or partially worked, to me they are good candidates to show progress.

Thanks,


Carlos Peris

Posts 11
18 Jul 2017 08:16


Please, anyone can try if Amiblitz2/3 works with the softFPU? Thank you!


John William

Posts 563
19 Jul 2017 01:24


Carlos Peris wrote:

  Please, anyone can try if Amiblitz2/3 works with the softFPU? Thank you!
 

 
  AmiBlitz2/3 works with softFPU! How do I know? Because I tried it and I am using them. I so like my FPU in software more way, way, way more than hardware mode. I don't know. It tickles me in the right way when it is software based.
 
 


John William

Posts 563
19 Jul 2017 01:26


Simo Koivukoski wrote:

Testing version 0.6 of femu
   
 
 
  EXTERNAL LINK   
 

Damn that screenshot reminds me of Amiga 500 in kickstart 1.3....oooh...my head just swimmed thinking about it.



Matthew Langtry

Posts 199
20 Jul 2017 23:47


are we allowed to try femu? or will it be released same time has gold 3 aga with sound / rgb through hdmi?


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 601
24 Jul 2017 06:29


Femu 0.10 has achieved the next compatibility milestone. Note that femu is not an FPU, femu only allows programs requiring an FPU to run without.


Montag PS

Posts 8
24 Jul 2017 06:52


Thank you and Jari for this amazing piece of software and for keeping us updated on its status!


Thomas Blatt

Posts 200
24 Jul 2017 07:06


How many FPS are in Quake? Amazing development of fpuemu

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