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Nixus Minimax
Posts 416
30 Jun 2017 11:59
| Roman S. wrote:
| | This doesn't look too good... My A1200 + ACA1233n (68030 @ 40 MHz + 68882 @ 50 MHz) scores over 6 times better |
All three benchmark runs were using different FP code settings. Why don't you show the same setting as in Simo's screenshot?
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Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 601
02 Jul 2017 22:16
| SoftFPU test / Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy (Intro only)
EXTERNAL LINK
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ExiE CZEX
Posts 48
02 Jul 2017 23:36
| Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
| | Ahh, what a childish reactions. |
From You? Yes, I agree.
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
| | Take note that other FPGA systems like Minimig, Mist or FPGA Arcade also dont have a hardware FPU, cant run FPU related binaries and dont have a softFPU option, and if there was, it would be slower then on Vampire. |
I like Your arguing style. You could become successful politician in my country. But riddle me this.
Minimig is an open source re-implementation of an Amiga 500. Mist was designed to implement classic 16 bit computers like the Amiga... etc. These classic computers never had FPU so why should somebody bother.
On the other hand Vampire or so called Apollo Accelerator advertised as an Amiga Classic accelerator board with fastest Amiga CPU... (so called 68080). As far as I know all 68040/60 accelerators for Amiga had FPU. 68080 don't, hmpf. Who would expected that. (And please don't say Apollo core have FPU, it is useless as long as it is not the same Apollo core that is implemented in only existing board on the market.)Don't get me wrong, I like this project very much and hope to get one board myself and I don't even care about FPU. I just don't like or better I hate the attitude of some debaters here. When someone gives the opposite view, become usually crucified and scared away from this forum. That's simply wrong.
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6216
03 Jul 2017 06:38
| The VAMPIRE is technically a NATAMI upgrade Kit.
The Vampire goal is to allow you to upgrade every AMIGA to the best AMIGA possible.
The whole development of this project took 10 years already and that it will surely take over 1 year before completed.
Development includes development of new chips, adaption of existing logic to the Vampire FPGA, writing of drivers, improving the OS.
The VAMPIRE allows you to use the features of the time you buy it - and allows you to install the other parts as soon they are ready.
The roadmap of all items that are to be developed takes several years. The plan is clearly set and it is fulfilled step by step.
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Vojin Vidanovic
Posts 770
03 Jul 2017 09:54
| ExiE CZEX wrote:
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Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
| | Ahh, what a childish reactions. |
I like Your arguing style. You could become successful politician in my country. But riddle me this. |
You mean our East/SouthEast European politricks of ex-commies in capitalists suits? No thanks, I will take it as higher offense, then being a child, but your right :-)
ExiE CZEX wrote:
| | Don't get me wrong, I like this project very much and hope to get one board myself and I don't even care about FPU. I just don't like or better I hate the attitude of some debaters here. When someone gives the opposite view, become usually crucified and scared away from this forum. That's simply wrong. |
Well, I dont really tend to offend people (beside that exclamaiting). However, as it is FPGA system, I believe its more comparable to FPGA systems, no matter how you sell it (Amiga vendors). Simply Amiga accels are true chips with them FPUs (040/060) and FPGA systems are recreations from scratch. Looking that way, you will see much work and less flaws.
FPU arguing becomes more and more tiresome because there is a softFPU now.
Its a bit spillower from A.org,AW.net and other boards where Vampire is slandered just because of FPU, while e.g. much slower pace of OS4 HW/SW development is found acceptable.
I do agree harsh reactions wont lead anywhere, but pressure on team never works. I have tried that with Hype boys for their own direct promises (Timberwolf, Libre, Warp3D for cards that SAM460/x1000 were sold with, ethernet onboard for x1000, CFE bugfixes) and was heavily slandered and all time banned. Not only that, none of these was done in last 3 years, since "new priorities were found" (x5000/Tabor ports and Enhancer) while these make x1000 non-beta sys and advance OS4 further then "Final" and "Enhancer" I do have.
Compared to that Apollo team (Gunnar) might react harshly, but
accept needs of people while keeping good pace of progress in their own ideas.
To conclude, hardware of Apollo is getting quite serious to very advanced and useful state, we need software to use new features like AMMX, HyperThreading, ApolloFPU once enabled, new 16-bit sound and some other SAGA features, so 68k can advance.
That I find more interesting and promising then 101% Classic comapatibility, not even Classics amongst themselves can achieve.
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Nixus Minimax
Posts 416
03 Jul 2017 10:11
| ExiE CZEX wrote:
| | As far as I know all 68040/60 accelerators for Amiga had FPU. |
How many 040/060 accelerators are there for A600 and A500? How many types of Amiga accelerators including FPU can you buy new today? If any, are they faster on FPU than the Soft-FPU on the Vampire? Nobody says that a fast hard-FPU wouldn't be any better than a soft-FPU.
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Michal Warzecha
Posts 209
03 Jul 2017 13:07
| Why don't You guys just don't stop talking about FPU? Just stop bother anymore about it. I think Gunnar should stick one clear post about FPU and cut any other posts about it. Besides, why so much people cry so much about FPU if Gunnar never said FPU will never be implemenetd? If it's planned but in some future- what's the problem? Especially if someone make SoftFPU to let programs work until real FPU is ready. I don't get it
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Olaf Schoenweiss
Posts 690
03 Jul 2017 13:39
| amigans obviously needs something to bash on somebody or a product because their lives are too boring without
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Chris H
Posts 65
03 Jul 2017 14:21
| Michal Warzecha wrote:
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Especially if someone make SoftFPU to let programs work until real FPU is ready. I don't get it
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Especially when people think criticizing someones great effort, like in that post, who is providing the community with a widely appreciated temporarilly workaround. And it's not about performance here in the first place.
It's not that you cant say it, but it's how you say it. This makes sometimes a big difference. Sometimes I don't really understand why people behave like this. A little bit more kindness in communication, and many things would be much easier.
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Martin Soerensen
Posts 232
03 Jul 2017 14:22
| It reminds me of the backyard train set segment featured on Last Week Tonight:
EXTERNAL LINK People just can't let stuff be. :)As Gunnar has written many times, the Apollo core does have an FPU already. It is just not identical to a 68060 FPU. Perhaps a SoftFPU solution could be made into utilizing the native FPU instructions in Apollo, thus making it significantly faster. Then you could also choose yourself what kind of FPU you want to emulate by using different versions or configurations of the 'SoftFPU' software.
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6216
03 Jul 2017 14:32
| Martin Soerensen wrote:
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As Gunnar has written many times, the Apollo core does have an FPU already. It is just not identical to a 68060 FPU.
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To precise this:
APOLLO HardFPU is 100% identical to the 68060 FPU from instructions.
Its just not tuned for placement in Cyclone3 yet.
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David Wright
Posts 373
03 Jul 2017 15:14
| That train video was funny but also instructive about people.
Makes me less in favor of democracy at times.You should see in my business world where someone foolishly asks for opinions on a logo design or some graphic work. By the time it 10 or more opinions come in, all hell breaks loose and the original poster wonders why he ever asked. Gunnar never asked. You need someone who has authority with some room granted for opinions. No company ever would run this way and most wouldn't bother to listen to the rabble. (I am a member :) Gold 3 is going to be a great improvement.
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Peter Heginbotham
Posts 214
03 Jul 2017 15:54
| For me It doesn't get any clear than Gunnar's last post (I would have used size 72 font bold red). I would lock this topic until such time there is clear news and have a separate topic for discussion on the softfpu.
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Thierry Atheist
Posts 644
03 Jul 2017 17:43
| Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:
| | amigans obviously needs something to bash on somebody or a product because their lives are too boring without |
Everyone (and me) has been waiting for this since 1995/6.... We're "CRAZY" by now!!!!
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Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 601
05 Jul 2017 22:18
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Dusko Kovacic
Posts 21
06 Jul 2017 11:24
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Martin Soerensen wrote:
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As Gunnar has written many times, the Apollo core does have an FPU already. It is just not identical to a 68060 FPU.
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To precise this:
APOLLO HardFPU is 100% identical to the 68060 FPU from instructions.
Its just not tuned for placement in Cyclone3 yet.
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Any use of asking Dave Haynie for help about the whole fpu thing?
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Nixus Minimax
Posts 416
06 Jul 2017 12:04
| Dusko Kovacic wrote:
| | Any use of asking Dave Haynie for help about the whole fpu thing? |
While Mr. Mustache rightly enjoys a demi-god status in the Amiga community, I don't think he's ever designed an FPU.
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Xan X-vision
(Needs Verification)
Posts 35/ 1
06 Jul 2017 22:15
| Nixus Minimax wrote:
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Dusko Kovacic wrote:
| | Any use of asking Dave Haynie for help about the whole fpu thing? |
While Mr. Mustache rightly enjoys a demi-god status in the Amiga community, I don't think he's ever designed an FPU.
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Wash your mouth before speaking about Mr.Haynie and start criticise him when you have donde a 10% of what he has achieved.
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Dusko Kovacic
Posts 21
06 Jul 2017 22:55
| Nixus Minimax wrote:
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Dusko Kovacic wrote:
| | Any use of asking Dave Haynie for help about the whole fpu thing? |
While Mr. Mustache rightly enjoys a demi-god status in the Amiga community, I don't think he's ever designed an FPU.
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I totally disagree with this statement of yours. Dave is a living Amiga HW encyclopaedia. If anyone knows the Amiga under the hood, he is the guy!
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Nixus Minimax
Posts 416
07 Jul 2017 09:57
| xan x-vision wrote:
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Wash your mouth before speaking about Mr.Haynie and start criticise him when you have donde a 10% of what he has achieved.
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I beg your pardon? "Mr. Mustache" was meant as an expression of affection rather than disrespect. In any case the point remains: Haynie surely knows how to design a PCB and pretty much anything Amiga but I doubt he's the right person to ask for input on processor design. Dusko Kovacic wrote:
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I totally disagree with this statement of yours. Dave is a living Amiga HW encyclopaedia. If anyone knows the Amiga under the hood, he is the guy!
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Knowing the Amiga under the hood doesn't make you a CPU designer.
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Information about the Apollo CPU and FPU.