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Do It, Do It Now.page  1 2 3 

Nicolas Sipieter
(Needs Verification)
Posts 115/ 1
13 Nov 2019 07:35


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

I fully understand why he talks here.
  Because if you want to add support for stuff like this to AMIGA in a sensible way then you need HW support for this.
 
  This means if you like to do this you need an IOMMU which controls Blitter and DMA channels. You also need a CPU which is able to do SMP and which is fully coherent.
 
  So talking to US HERE - makes really sense - as its US HERE which can develop this, or have already developed this.

@gunnar,
while i admit i like your answer, i also have to say:
you cannot approve and justify me, while in same time, kicking me out of irc for stating the obvious and label me as a troll here.
this contradict principles of logic.



Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
13 Nov 2019 07:42


earlier this year I had a very unstable amiga. I'd collected a lot of upgrades (fastATA, USB, etc) and it wasn't booting reliably.

it was because the tower case I put it into. It didn't hold the hardware steady so things started working their way loose.

I put it in Steve Jones' nice checkmate case and now it boots perfectly and runs several days at a time. Only time I saw a crash since was when I did naughty things experimenting with multiple screens and managed to open a program on one that didn't exist.

Even with all these strange new hardware devices connecting in weird places like RTC and rom sockets, even with dozens of 3rd party library replacements and hacks like fblit, AmigaOS runs 100% stable.

This is because the design principles are correct.


Nicolas Sipieter
(Needs Verification)
Posts 115/ 1
13 Nov 2019 07:45


@gunnar,
 
  and yes, it's all about the crashes.
  i also owned briefly 2 os4 machines (a1-xe and sam440-flex)
  i also tried aros quite a few times
  i also owned a pegasos1 mos1.4
  and used uae (admittedly very rarely)
 
  amigaos is as nice and great as it is unstable like a drunk camel struck by a hard case of dysentery.
  that is to say it is extremely nice to use and extremely crashy.
  when i use any amiga-like-os i fear if i blink it may have crashed two times in the meanwhile.
  yet, they are so nice to use, they look so wonderful, so clear and simple to use.. a fresh breath of wind in OSes world.. but it is plagued by constant crashes literally, like a flea ridden dog.
  i know it's not nice to hear, but it's the truth.
  and it may not be a fatality either, may be things can be done to improve from that situation.


Nicolas Sipieter
(Needs Verification)
Posts 115/ 1
13 Nov 2019 08:17


@gunnar
 
you say amiga is stable.
maybe i should describe my use case.
 
maybe if you find apps that behave and have been well made, you can set amiga on a long task with these apps.
maybe rendering some 3d scene, or applying effects on picture in paint programs, or resampling sounds applying effects, filters or something. maybe amiga will do that and complete the task without crashing. so that is a good point.
but,
while it is doing that, calculating something, or serving files on the net or whatever that long task maybe,
while it is doing that, if you try to do something else, like being on irc, watching a movie, or surfing or playing audio, or customizing workbench or something, it is guaranted it will crash.
from my experience playings with settings in prefs: alone for a while can result in total lockup.
also, around the time i used to use amiga full time, i had this habit of using irc for downloading stuffs, like movies, on what was called fserves, so i had irc running 24/7, downloading long files.
when i leave amiga and go to bed, in the morning i was almost certain all my downloads frozen, amigaos crashed. it was like 8 chances out of 10.
 


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
13 Nov 2019 10:49


nicolas sipieter wrote:

  but,
  while it is doing that, calculating something, or serving files on the net or whatever that long task maybe,
  while it is doing that, if you try to do something else, like being on irc, watching a movie, or surfing or playing audio, or customizing workbench or something, it is guaranted it will crash.

No it isn't.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4832
13 Nov 2019 11:04


Kyle Blake wrote:

  No it isn't.

 
Kyle is right.
 
I believe Nicholas that he had a unstable system.
Why it was unstable - we not know.
Maybe it was because of overloaded PSU,
maybe it was because of overclocked CPU,
maybe it was because of bad hardware, of faulty memory modules,
maybe because of some bad system patches he installed,
maybe because of viruses.
 
Nicholas seems to blame it on the OS.
And he seems to think that memory protection would fix this.
Which is simply not the case.
Memory protection would not help against any of those problems.
 
 


Xan X-vision

Posts 30
13 Nov 2019 14:52


What is the red line to update Amiga? who states it and is above all the rest of the community just because?

Should I remember Apollo is not considered "Amiga" by some purist just because it provides updates?

The "features" you are defending of Amiga OS are NOT features that made Amiga succesfull, but in fact SHORTCOMINGS of its ancient age.

Why an Amiga OS with memory protection, etc... make it less Amiga OS? XD that's simply ridiculous. It just make it better, not worse.

If someone was talking about changing the Amiga OS structure or philosophy, then OK, it could be very questionable, but this is not the case: We are talking about keeping Amiga OS philosophy intact, and add good AND MUCH NEEDED features to improve it. THE SAME AS APOLLO OS TEAM IS DOING WITH HARDWARE.

If Commodore was alive, would it keep the same features of 1992, or update them?

We are trying to improve the system, to make it usable for the years to come. Or do you prefer to make it unusable, and just able to run 30 years old software??

What is right and what is wrong to say here? just what admins consider inside political correctness based on their own opinions?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4832
13 Nov 2019 14:58


xan x-vision wrote:

  What is right and what is wrong to say here? just what admins consider inside political correctness based on their own opinions?
 
 
 
My opinion is based on 30 years of understanding of AMIGA OS.
Based on this experience, my opinion is
that "adding memory protection" will simply break AMIGA OS completely.
Its a simple fact that MP is a very unrealistic goal for AMIGA OS.




Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
13 Nov 2019 15:00


xan x-vision wrote:

  The "features" you are defending of Amiga OS are NOT features that made Amiga succesfull, but in fact SHORTCOMINGS of its ancient age.
 

 
  Magneto ignition, wooden wheels, planetary gear and side-valve engine are not what made Ford Model T successful, they are shortcomings of it's ancient age
 
  but they also define it.

What kind of computer Commodore would make in some hypothetical situation where they're a successful and relevant industry player does not matter. Here in the real world Commodore makes nothing because they are gone. Amiga is a toy for nerds, Vampire team makes vampire for their own desires, not to fight microsoft.


Lonny Pursell

Posts 7
13 Nov 2019 15:26


Seen Atari mentioned a few times as some arguing point. As long time Atari user since 1985 I can tell you that memory protection (MP) brings problems. Atari is mentioned as if MP is somehow perfect. It is not and it breaks old stuff. Some apps won't even work with the MiNT kernel even if MP is shut off. Luckily on that Atari MP can be shut off but that doesn't always fix old software. In some cases the MiNT kernel has to be unloaded and the original OS used to get problematic software to work. It's actually a mixed bag of problems.
 
However, for a nice programming environment full MP is awesome.


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 179
13 Nov 2019 16:26


xan x-vision wrote:

  If Commodore was alive, would it keep the same features of 1992, or update them?
 

 
  This is not a Cloanto/Hyperion forum.  Please direct requests to change the OS to the owners of the OS.
   
 
xan x-vision wrote:

  What is right and what is wrong to say here? just what admins consider inside political correctness based on their own opinions?
 

 
  Correct!  Here is a simple guide:
  What is right - Apollo Core and Vampire related questions
  What is wrong - Bad behavior and intentionally pursuing irrelevant topics.
  Who decides right/wrong - Yes you are right.  It is admins.  They make the rules.  :-)
 
 
  But seriously people.  This isn't a forum for requesting changes to the Amiga OS.  It is a forum for those who share an interest in the Vampire HARDWARE.  Please end this topic here.  Enough is enough.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4832
13 Nov 2019 16:58


I fear, this topic will lead nowhere.

Therefore I kindly ask you to stop this now.

My proposal lets focus on something positive and reachable.




Tim Trepanier

Posts 106
13 Nov 2019 17:00


nicolas sipieter wrote:

amigaos is as nice and great as it is unstable like a drunk camel struck by a hard case of dysentery.

Reguarding Amiga stability. As a heavy multitasking user i've had unstable Amiga's before. Adding RAM fixed it. I've also known others with unstable Amiga's. Occasionally the issue would be a buggy add-on or two add-ons get didn't get along together, but most of time adding RAM solved the stability issues.

Perhaps AmigaOS needs better RAM management or ways to notify the user of low RAM situations.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4832
14 Nov 2019 11:12


This topic is closed.
 
Use your time on something positive.

Maybe read about AMIGA OS internals and learn how it works.


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