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Debian 10 M68k (MMU Required, Not Yet for Vamps!)page  1 2 

Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
01 Sep 2019 03:52


Note that Linux is not supported OS on Vamps!
 
    Deb 10 is m68k, but eats a lot of resources
    More like UAE only, but I am glad it exists
   
    CD image net install dir
    EXTERNAL LINK     
    Direct ISO download debian-10.0-m68k-NETINST-1.iso
    2018-05-18 09:13  152M
    EXTERNAL LINK     
    . Recommended Minimum System Requirements
    Install Type  RAM (minimum)  RAM (recommended)  Hard Drive
    No desktop  128 megabytes  512 megabytes  2 gigabytes
    With Desktop  256 megabytes  1 gigabyte  10 gigabytes
   
    It is possible to run a graphical desktop environment on older or low-end systems, but in that case it is recommended to install a window manager that is less resource-hungry than those of the GNOME or KDE desktop environments; alternatives include xfce4, icewm and wmaker, but there are others to choose from.
   
   
        Updated Desktop GNOME 3.30, Cinnamon 3.8, KDE Plasma 5.14, MATE 1.20 & Xfce 4.12
        LTS kernel 4.19.0-4
        New Python 3 (3.7.2), Perl 5.28 & PHP 7.3
        Iptables are replaced by nftables
        Updated LibreOffice 6.1 & GIMP 2.10.8
        Updated OpenJDK 11, MariaDB 10.3 and Apache 2.4.38
        Updated Chromium 73.0 & Firefox 60.7
        Improved support for UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface)
   
    In this article we will demonstrate how to install Debian 10 “Buster” workstation on your Laptop & Desktop.
   
    Recommended System Requirements for Debian 10
   
        2 GB RAM
        2 GHz Dual Core Processor
        10 GB Free Hard disk space
        Bootable Installation Media (USB/ DVD)
        Internet connectivity (Optional)
  -------------------------------------------- 
  Deb9 port also exists
 
  EXTERNAL LINK  with lower requirements
  Kernel 4.9
  Default MySQL is now MariaDB 10.1
  LibreOffice 5.2
  GNOME Desktop Environment 3.2
  KDE Plasma 5.8
  Xfce 4.12
  PHP 7
  New version of GIMP 2.8.18
  Firefox 45.9
 
  Following are the minimum system requirements for Debian 9 Installation:
 
  512 MB RAM
  10 GB HDD
  1GHz Pentium 4 processor
  Installation Media (USB / DVD)


Ingo Uhlemann

Posts 27
04 Sep 2019 10:17


Then go the easiest way and take FreeMint on EmuTOS.

Mint is a BSD Like OS
You can compile Linux applications on it
X environment does exisit already and can be used also in Vampire.
A lot of nix tools does exisit already on FreeMint

Of course all packages are still outdated and should be updated to newer versions. On Vampire it is possible because vamp has enought power where it is possible!
FreeMint can be moved to a inittab driven system like linux.

Of course its not Linux, but its very close and it runs on Vampire!!


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
04 Sep 2019 11:13


Ingo Uhlemann wrote:

  Of course its not Linux, but its very close and it runs on Vampire!!
 

 
  Thanks Ingo, to be honest, most Amigans (incl. I) dont have much experience with old ST/TT Mint and less with FreeMINT.
 
  Thanks for all the info, hope Vamps will boost FreeMINT production, as beside FireBee and similar, almost only product avail as new today able to run it.
 
  On Atari side, would love to see Yamaha/DSP in v4 so Atari music software can be accessed - a long time envy of Amiga users.
 


Andy Hearn

Posts 255
04 Sep 2019 11:35


oooh interesting. i might give Deb10 a whirl on the a3k and see how far i get or not ;) :D


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
04 Sep 2019 12:25


Andy Hearn wrote:

  oooh interesting. i might give Deb10 a whirl on the a3k and see how far i get or not ;) :D
 

 
  Report back and use XFCE or other advised "low end" GUI ( icewm and wmaker). Let me know does Libre Writter works if you get there :)


Samuel Devulder

Posts 220
04 Sep 2019 13:13


It seem that FreeMint is able to display PDF, and browse the web
EXTERNAL LINK


Ingo Uhlemann

Posts 27
04 Sep 2019 13:51


Samuel Devulder wrote:

It seem that FreeMint is able to display PDF, and browse the web
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Sure why not ? FreeMint is an uptodate OS for Atari Compatible computers. There is NetSurf as Browser, zView as image viewer (also cam access is working using USB). and of course PDF Viewer.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
04 Sep 2019 14:01


We need just Libre Writter port (ehm) and net driver for Vamp, and yes, Linux odyssey might as well be Atari one :)


Andy Hearn

Posts 255
04 Sep 2019 16:11


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Andy Hearn wrote:

  oooh interesting. i might give Deb10 a whirl on the a3k and see how far i get or not ;) :D
 

 
  Report back and use XFCE or other advised "low end" GUI ( icewm and wmaker). Let me know does Libre Writter works if you get there :)

will do, Libre Office is kinda my primary motivation :D



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
04 Sep 2019 17:33


Andy Hearn wrote:

    will do, Libre Office is kinda my primary motivation :D
   

   
    Mine too, and I find Libre excellent, from 3.x to 6.x
   
    Note that while Linux install should go smooth,
    its not that easy to make Amiga Boot to it.
 
    Also you need to dedicate either a new HDD to Linux,
  or resize existing Amiga and create new EXT3 and SWAP partition (at least blank partitions, rest you can do in Linux installer)
 
  Since some Amiga tools are so old it might be advised to Use EXT3 not EXT4, and seems AmiBoot and Amiga LILO are needed
    to have a boot menu / boot to Linux start from AOS (sadly 2011 A1-x1000 has some of the same limits due to half glued and unadapted "CFE" borrowed from a router and ported to PPC SOCC instead of using reliable UBoot that works with all Linux installs)
   
    Some old instructions, none related to Deb10 can be found
    m68k DEb FAQ
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    1997 Guide to Linux on Amiga
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    This description is more modern
    EXTERNAL LINK   
   
    Good luck!
   


Witold Baryluk

Posts 3
26 Oct 2019 14:39


You should grab a net install ISO, and install minimal system, plus SSH server. If you use expert installation mode you can reduce dependencies even further. It is possible to install Debian easily and still be below 60MB of RAM usage.

I don't know the speed of SD card, but you could store some of the files over NFS or iSCSI and access it over network. The networking on Vamp isn't fast unfortunately to make it super useful, but it might sometimes help (with latency, not bandwidth).

I doubt it will be useful to run even minimal X server with minimal window manager. I know it is possible to run i3 + xterm, or windows maker, ssh server and still be below 80MB of RAM usage. I did it few times with Debian 10.




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
27 Oct 2019 06:42


Witold Baryluk wrote:

  You should grab a net install ISO, and install minimal system, plus SSH server. If you use expert installation mode you can reduce dependencies even further. It is possible to install Debian easily and still be below 60MB of RAM usage.
 

 
  LXDE could take up to 60MB more and rest of ~300MB is left to Libre/FF + vmem. That leaves out Amigas below 128mb RAM, even potentually v2. RAM is a bit requirement for modern Linux, even more then CPU. And fast Internet. We ll see how Vamp V4 LAN will be detected, as well as USB. Linux wont be bad for hw testing.
 
  GNOMEs could do better and be bare minimum to run a modern app.


Michal Pietal

Posts 67
27 Oct 2019 18:44


Interesting thread.

Would be extremely happy to be capable of installing >any sensible< linux distro *) on my V4SA.

*) ie. debian-based, having tools like apt


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
29 Oct 2019 15:52


Michal Pietal wrote:

    Interesting thread.
   
    Would be extremely happy to be capable of installing >any sensible< linux distro *) on my V4SA.
   
    *) ie. debian-based, having tools like apt
   

   
    ucLinux is only MMU less one that works on m68k, so COULD boot on Vamp as we know. Even its minimal, Gunnar predicts it will crawl.
   
    At Wiki
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    2016 distro
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    Minimal footprint
    EXTERNAL LINK  Example of real world use
EXTERNAL LINK   
    It , and boots to Terminal, so expert use only. requires a bit of Linux app recompile so no immidiate APT access to everything FLOSS but GCC and tears and pain. 240MB+ included so far.
   
    But, having e.g. LXDE, Iceweasel, Libre Writter to it could save the day - not only on Vamp, ColdFire too!
   
    Too bad interest in this Linux is dropping.
   
    Even I do like idea of FreeMINT as Amigas "next Linux".
   
    Amiga gets Linux via Atari. But AROS has Linux parts and GCC compiler, so who knows "how to skin a cat".
   


Markus B

Posts 101
29 Oct 2019 15:59


There is no "this Linux". Linux was never too tight to any platform and as told by others, most people have zero interest in running a Linux system on the Amiga.

This whole retro approach only makes sense if we keep it focused, unique and native.

I have no interest in some ports of other programs and even less I have interest in running Linux on AC68080. I use Linux everyday and I accept it as the main system in 2019 on the majority of my systems and therefore I really think of it as the superior solution on commodity hardware.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
29 Oct 2019 16:14


I agree now there are more pressing matters on AmigaOS front, V4 and V2 GOLD3 cores etc. but ... never stop thinking ahead.

I see it as unique bridge to get more modern apps. It saved the day on AmigaOnes and would not brake the retro magic if having it as "that other OS". Vampire needs just a bit more power and mmu to run those unofficial 68k ports, or more crafted and customized Linux distro for v4. Libre Writter 2 or 3 can do a lot, or AbiWord, way more then AmigaWritter etc.

I do love modern Linuxes. Fast, versatile, customizable, user controllable, update one-in-all, no viruses. My only desire is that distros come with sudo super admin that does not need to type passwords every now and there :)

There was a Linux on m68k, it was dropped when it officially died.

I hope Vamp will grow to run Linux too. Penguin does not discriminate :)

ucLinux is quite complex and requires build up.

uClinux Distribution
====================

Contents
--------

0) Introduction
1) Instructions for compiling
2) Changing the applications/kernel-options/libraries
3) Documentation

0) Introduction
---------------

This source package is an "all-in-one" build framework for generating a
complete embedded system. It has been developed with embedded devices
in mind, but it can just as equally be used for normal computing devices
(like a PC for example). It is ideal for building small, light weight
systems.

The framework is targeted at building Linux based firmware for small
embedded systems. It is capable of building for non-MMU and MMU targets
of Linux.

It supports a wide varity of hardware, many CPUs and a large number of
target boards. It is easy to extend the build for new vendors or boards
and to add new applications.

1) Instructions for Compiling
-----------------------------

  1. You will need a cross-compiler package for your target. Many binary
      tool packages exist already. Your development host system may have
      cross cimpiler packages available for it (for example ubuntu does).
      There are third party packages available from groups such as
      CodeSourcery. Or you can get one from community sites such as
      EXTERNAL LINK Install that first in the usual way.
 
  2. If you have not un-archived the source package then do that now.
      It is a bzipped tar image, so do:
 
        tar xzf uClinux-dist-XXXXXXXX.tar.bz2
 
      This will dump the source into a "uClinux-dist" directory.
      You can do this into any directory, typically use your own user
      login. (I don't recommend devloping as root, it is bad practice,
      and it will bite you one day!)
 
  3. Cd into the source tree:
 
          cd uClinux-dist
 
  4. Configure the build target:
 
          make menuconfig
 
      You can also use "make config" or "make xconfig" if you prefer.
 
      The top level selection is straight forward if you know the vendor of
      the board you want to compile for. You can choose also to modify the
      underlying default kernel and application configuration if you want.
 
      At first it is suggested that you use the default configuration for
      your target board. It will almost certainly work "as is".

      You can choose to enter configuration for the kernel or libraries/
      applications at this step. Saying yes to those will then run the
      configuration on those components after 'Save and Exit' of this step.
      (Section 2 below contains more information on doing this.)

      Based on what platform you choose in this step the build will generate
      an appropriate default application set.

      Sometimes a number of questions will appear after you 'Save and Exit'.
      Do not be concerned, it just means that some new config options have
      been added to the source tree that do not have defaults for the
      configuration you have chosen.  If this happens the safest option is
      to answer 'N' to each question as they appear.

  5. Build the image:
 
          make
 
 
  Thats it!
 
  The make will generate appropriate binary images for the target hardware
  specified. The final generated files will be placed under the "images"
  directory. The exact files vary from target to target, typically you end
  up with something like an "image.bin" file.

  How to load and run the generated image will depend on your target system
  hardware. There are a number of HOWTO documents under the Documentation
  directy that describe how to load and run the image on specific boards.
  Look for a file named after your target board.

2) Changing the Applications/Kernel/Libraries
---------------------------------------------

  You can modify the kernel configuration and application set generated for
  your target using the config system. You can configure by running one of
  the following three commands:

        make xconfig      - graphical X11 based config
        make menuconfig    - text menu based config
        make config        - plain text shell script based config

  Menuconfig and xconfig are the simplest, I would recommend using one of
  them.

  The key options under the "Target Platform Selection" menu are the
  following:

        Customize Kernel Settings
            Selecting this option run the standard Linux kernel config.

        Customize Vendor/User Settings
            Selecting this option will run a configure process allowing
            you to enable or disable individual applications and libraries.

    Use the online "Help" if unsure of what a configuration option means.

    When you 'Save and Exit' the build system will run you through the
    configs you have selected to customise.

3) Documention
--------------

  There is an assortment of documentaion files under the Documentaion
  directory. The more interresting ones are:

        SOURCE  -- file at the top level gives a brief run down of the
                  structure of this source distribution package.

        Documentation/Adding-User-Apps-HOWTO
                -- description of how to add a new application into the
                  config and build setup of the distribution.

        Documentation/Adding-Platforms-HOWTO
                -- description of how to add a new vendor board config to
                  the distribution.

        Documentation/<BOARD>-HOWTO
                -- describes building and loading for a particular board.




Markus B

Posts 101
30 Oct 2019 08:57


Linux saved nothing on the AmigaOne. Nobody used that as a main system.


Kef Emzy

Posts 40
30 Oct 2019 11:57


Markus B wrote:

Linux saved nothing on the AmigaOne. Nobody used that as a main system.

Agreed, I don't understand this obsession with linux on Vampire. I have linux on my laptop, desktop, raspberry pi 2 & 3, odroid c2 and on my phone (sort of, it's android). I have no need of this OS on a Vampire. It would be slow as f**k and who is going to maintain it? What about updated repositories? Why take away resources from the team for something which there are many other and better solutions. I'd rather see some rudimentary 3D graphics and I'll be really happy about that. Maybe an ASIC one day.

Capable as Vampire is (kudos to you BigGun) it is not really a linux computer, it's the best new Amiga hardware since 1985. And I will be extremely happy with the standalone version when I finally get one. Just because it may be possible to run linux on Vampire, doesn't mean it's a good idea.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1427
30 Oct 2019 13:44


Markus B wrote:

Linux saved nothing on the AmigaOne. Nobody used that as a main system.

Thanks to Linux, it was possible. I did it.

One day, as vamp grows in power, unless m68k development blossoms, you might feel the need of a bit more modern apps.



Gerardo González-Trejo

Posts 26
30 Oct 2019 13:56


I do not see any kind of benefit too. I would prefer to focus all energy on porting/adapting AROS and compiling tools. Regarding MMU or not MMU, same opinion, not needed on the classic way.

I work with Linux all day, on servers, desktop... And if I want to have fun I turn on my Amiga not to run Linux on it :)

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