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Information about the Apollo CPU and FPU.

News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License - True?page  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Mr Niding

Posts 195
09 Nov 2017 20:21


@Gregthe Canuck
 
  I guess Im naive and hope that a calm discussion helps. Opinions is one thing. One can discuss a topic and the merits of the issue (be it hardware or whatever). Even if one have different endgoals/target for a platform, once can see the value of other peoples work etc. If you catch my drift.
 
  But if the other party in a discussion has completely locked up, becoming impervious to input, its no longer any point to discuss.
  As Ive said several times, atleast Britelite brought some real concerns to the table.

But Ive finally learned. Im checked out of these topics, permanently. I will stick to threads like this EXTERNAL LINK


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2957
09 Nov 2017 23:06


Mr Niding wrote:

      I guess Im naive and hope that a calm discussion helps.
     

     
This guy is like a jester - he is funny.
He does not understand anything about the Vampire, but this does not stop him to talk nonsense.
   
Another funny post of him is this at amiga.org
Chucky said : "I met Majsta etc at Amiga32.. we had a short talk. and he was nice to talk to. "
 
We all know that, Majsta was not at A32 at all. :-)
 
I think Chucky is a funny little guy.
And he does good advertisement for us. :-)
Everyone sees immediately that he is motivated by envy and has no clue what he talks about.

     


M Rickan

Posts 133
10 Nov 2017 02:23


eric gus wrote:

the "warts and all" was a response to Gunnars comments about the flaws inherent in the 060 itself..

I understood the context and clearly disagree with the positioning.

It wasn't that long ago when the idea of FPU support was considered blasphemy and now it's being showcased.

It's simple really: round out the remaining areas of compatibility and then focus on the bells and whistles.


M Rickan

Posts 133
10 Nov 2017 02:46


Ian Parsons wrote:

The answer to a modern but incompatible MMU(/MPU) is not to put effort into changing it back to an older model, the answer is to put effort into creating new and better developer tools for the new one.

Which basically provides a convenient way of dismissing any old technology.

By reimplementing the legacy CPU features first you preserve compatibility, expand the user base and can then focus on developing better ways of doing things.

None of this is about right or wrong, lack of gratitude or disrespect - it's about perceived priorities.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 575
10 Nov 2017 03:43


m rickan wrote:
eric gus wrote:
the "warts and all" was a response to Gunnars comments about the flaws inherent in the 060 itself..

I understood the context and clearly disagree with the positioning.

It wasn't that long ago when the idea of FPU support was considered blasphemy and now it's being showcased.


That's not true. They NEVER said that a FPU was not going to happen.

They stated that (not word for word), "due to not enough LE's, a FPU was going to be partially implemented, but we have and are putting one in. Vampire 4 FPU? NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!"

Mostly, it was acceptable by the potential customer base.


Eric Gus

Posts 140
10 Nov 2017 05:22


m rickan wrote:

 
eric gus wrote:

  the "warts and all" was a response to Gunnars comments about the flaws inherent in the 060 itself..
 

 
  I understood the context and clearly disagree with the positioning.
 
  It wasn't that long ago when the idea of FPU support was considered blasphemy and now it's being showcased.
 
  It's simple really: round out the remaining areas of compatibility and then focus on the bells and whistles.
 

 
  My original comment was just if there was a desire to squash any of the stick in the mud critics who have complaints about the apollo core being "nonstandard" .. by providing 100% clone of the 060 it pretty much takes away nearly all their arguments  (and this is with the "free" core not the 080 full version).. that was all it was about.. Personally I am fine with the direction the team has gone with the 080 .. if we want to move forward we can't be stuck in the 060 "past" ..


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2957
10 Nov 2017 09:11


eric gus wrote:

  My original comment was just if there was a desire to squash any of the stick in the mud critics who have complaints about the apollo core being "nonstandard" .. by providing 100% clone of the 060 it pretty much takes away nearly all their arguments 
 

 
Actually they have no reasonable arguments at all.
 
The 68040 design did had the most complete 68K instruction set.
 
The 68060 aim was to reach higher clock than the 68040.
To reach this goal, the 68060 engineers did simply sacrifice some power features of the 68040.
 
So the 68060 clocks higher than the 68040, but does not support all instructions of the 68040.
 
The APOLLO 68080 does support all instructions again and clocks even higher.
 

To give the obvious car example.
The 68040 was a muscle car with 6 Liter engine reaching 4000 RPM.
The 68060 is sport car with 4 Liter engine reaching 8000 RPM.

The APOLLO 68080 is sports/muscle car with 6 Liter engine reaching 10000 RPM.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 388
10 Nov 2017 09:42


from amiga.org:

@Chucky So yeah talking to Gunnar on IRC, it wasn't Majsta you where talking to. You where complaining about Gunnar directly to his own face...

LOL

;) ;) ;)


Djole Djole

Posts 17
10 Nov 2017 12:13


On a.org there are only a few people complaining, its not about the complaining, every one has the right to be unhappy about some product, but i cant understand the constant repeating of the same. They finally are stopping about FPU, since they see its almost there, now they moved over to MMU.


Michal Warzecha

Posts 189
10 Nov 2017 13:11


I wonder what will be next. Case? Board colour? Logo mayby?
Unbeliveble.


Roman S.

Posts 108
10 Nov 2017 13:31


> I wonder what will be next. Case? Board colour?

1. Unfinished drivers (see internal SD card).
2. Ports. To be precise: lack of serial, parallel, floppy, SATA.

> Logo mayby?

If there is going to be a branding (either during normal system startup or somewhere in the Workbench) that cannot be disabled - then yes, there will be complaints.



Peter Heginbotham

Posts 100
10 Nov 2017 14:09


Roman S. wrote:

> I wonder what will be next. Case? Board colour?
 
  1. Unfinished drivers (see internal SD card).
  2. Ports. To be precise: lack of serial, parallel, floppy, SATA.
 
  > Logo mayby?
 
  If there is going to be a branding (either during normal system startup or somewhere in the Workbench) that cannot be disabled - then yes, there will be complaints.
 

If the V4 board colour don't come in as Sky Blue then this project is dead to me :)




Peter Slegg

Posts 1
10 Nov 2017 15:33


I use an Atari clone (Milan was 040 but upgraded to 060@25).

Most of the Atari software was written for the 68000 or 68030 and things that don't work on the Milan fail because the software is trying to use ST or Falcon hardware items that are not present.

I would be interested in a fast replacement for the cpu at the right price.

It wouldn't have to be an exact duplicate of the Motorola cpu as long as the key components are present. If the bugs and quirks of the 68060 were removed I doubt it would have any great effect on the range of compatible applications. It might even make it better :-)




Andrew Copland

Posts 73
10 Nov 2017 16:30


This could be an interesting move.


Eric Gus

Posts 140
11 Nov 2017 05:43


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

eric gus wrote:

  My original comment was just if there was a desire to squash any of the stick in the mud critics who have complaints about the apollo core being "nonstandard" .. by providing 100% clone of the 060 it pretty much takes away nearly all their arguments 
 

 
  Actually they have no reasonable arguments at all.
 
  The 68040 design did had the most complete 68K instruction set.
 
  The 68060 aim was to reach higher clock than the 68040.
  To reach this goal, the 68060 engineers did simply sacrifice some power features of the 68040.
 
  So the 68060 clocks higher than the 68040, but does not support all instructions of the 68040.
 
  The APOLLO 68080 does support all instructions again and clocks even higher.
 
 
  To give the obvious car example.
  The 68040 was a muscle car with 6 Liter engine reaching 4000 RPM.
  The 68060 is sport car with 4 Liter engine reaching 8000 RPM.
 
  The APOLLO 68080 is sports/muscle car with 6 Liter engine reaching 10000 RPM.

Oh I agree with you 100% .. but I never said their arguments were rational or logical.. its just the one thing they keep saber rattling on about..


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2957
13 Nov 2017 01:26


Peter Slegg wrote:

I use an Atari clone (Milan was 040 but upgraded to 060@25).
 
Most of the Atari software was written for the 68000 or 68030 and things that don't work on the Milan fail because the software is trying to use ST or Falcon hardware items that are not present.

Maybe you can tell use more about the Milan?

For your info, SAGA does support ATARI hardware Planar GXF modes.
This means you can display ATARI ST modes with SAGA.



Nixus Minimax

Posts 211
13 Nov 2017 06:54


eric gus wrote:
My original comment was just if there was a desire to squash any of the stick in the mud critics who have complaints about the apollo core being "nonstandard" .. by providing 100% clone of the 060 it pretty much takes away nearly all their arguments

I have not followed this discussion but why spend a lot of work on something totally meaningless and unnecessary if we already have something better?


Eric Gus

Posts 140
13 Nov 2017 20:23


Nixus Minimax wrote:

eric gus wrote:
My original comment was just if there was a desire to squash any of the stick in the mud critics who have complaints about the apollo core being "nonstandard" .. by providing 100% clone of the 060 it pretty much takes away nearly all their arguments
 

 
  I have not followed this discussion but why spend a lot of work on something totally meaningless and unnecessary if we already have something better?

It was just an idea to silence the most vocal of critics who cry that nothing except a pure 060/040 is valid.. by making the "free" version of the apollo core identical to an 060/040 in every possible way they have little if nothing left to complain about or rattle their sabers at, if a user wants to unlock the full potential of the core and get the 080 features saga, ammx etc. then they can do the paid upgrade etc..


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2957
13 Nov 2017 20:27


eric gus wrote:

It was just an idea ...

Building a much "worse" version of APOLLO to be like the much worse 060 would need a complete redesign. This would take a year of development time only to create something much less good?


Eric Gus

Posts 140
13 Nov 2017 20:31


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

eric gus wrote:

  It was just an idea ...
 

 
  Building a much "worse" version of APOLLO to be like the much worse 060 would need a complete redesign. This would take a year of development time only to create something much less good?

I agree but you know as long as it has .. what did they call it.. "foreign"? design concepts they will reject it.. (I think we all know the folks we are talking about who complain most about the "non standard" additions in the 080 core )..

Anyway it was just an idea if you were going to release a "Stripped down" "free" version of the core, why not use it to silence the vocal minority. It wasn't a proposal to do more work.


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