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Ask to Port to V4

John William

Posts 467
14 Nov 2019 00:21


What do you guys think of asking the team to have this ported to the V4? After all V4 is nothing more than NG Amiga 68k:

EXTERNAL LINK


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
14 Nov 2019 00:27


Asked the author.
  Good news: he is a skilled m68k coder too
 
  Bad news: due to some legal mambo jumbo os3 port of this game is NOT possible
 
  So, we might ask for some new one?


Mo Retro

Posts 239
14 Nov 2019 01:43


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  Asked the author.
    Good news: he is a skilled m68k coder too
   
    Bad news: due to some legal mambo jumbo os3 port of this game is NOT possible
   
    So, we might ask for some new one?
 

  Are you sure Vojin?
 
  I heard that it was because Simone's previous OS3.x game Skillgrid didn't sell well. that's the reason why he was abandoning the 68K platform when I was asking for it.
 
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
14 Nov 2019 09:02


You are right, I mixed it with Mind Maps software for OS4 (where I also asked for backport).

But, OS3 port is again not planned, but possible.


Nixus Minimax

Posts 416
14 Nov 2019 09:21


John William wrote:

  What do you guys think of asking the team to have this ported to the V4? After all V4 is nothing more than NG Amiga 68k:
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Looks like Pacman with guns. I'm not too excited about it.



Simone Bevilacqua

Posts 5
14 Nov 2019 09:54


Hello everybody,
 
  following a link provided by itch.io, I've discovered this thread.
  First of all, thanks for your interest in Blastaway.
  I've been asked by email, on itch.io, and on various forums to port Blastaway to other platforms, so I thought I'd better give a complete and clear answer everywhere.
 
  I'm not going to port Blastaway to any other platform.
 
  In general, other platforms won't be considered because:
  * I can't take the burden of adapting the game and then of offering (future) support (two platforms are already demanding, and with BOH I've learned that increasing the number of supported systems beyond two is insane);
  * porting is boring;
  * help offers aren't of any help (terrible pun intended) because also collaborating, for several reasons, takes time and energies;
  * I don't own all the machines I'm being / I will be asked to port the game to, and for money and logistical reasons I can't get more;
  * I have many other projects (for classic Amiga and Commodore 64) wating to be resumed, and time and energies are limited.
 
  In particular, a classic Amiga version won't happen because:
  * it couldn't be identical;
  * it would require a huge development effort, as no direct port is possible: the code would have to be written from scratch and the data would have to be adapted;
  * it would require an additional effort for testing, given the variety of hardware configurations;
  * it would require again a big effort in case of updates (if any).
 
 
Mo Retro wrote:
Are you sure Vojin?
   
    I heard that it was because Simone's previous OS3.x game Skillgrid didn't sell well. that's the reason why he was abandoning the 68K platform when I was asking for it.

 
  This is incorrect: I have never said that SkillGrid didn't sell well nor have I ever abandoned the classic Amiga (in fact, I have quite a number of projects that are waiting to be completed and that I long to work on, although I'm not sure I'll have the chance to).


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4840
14 Nov 2019 10:01


Simone Bevilacqua wrote:

    In particular, a classic Amiga version won't happen because:
      * it couldn't be identical;
      * it would require a huge development effort, as no direct port is possible: the code would have to be written from scratch and the data would have to be adapted;
 

Please help me understand where the problem is.
 
Why is a direct 68k compile not possible?
What GFX system is used in the game?



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
14 Nov 2019 10:08


If porting is boring, can we license someone else to do it?

Again, list of OS4 dependencies used would be crucial. We have to look for OS3 substitutes, until Hype levels us up (slow process with OS 3.2 and Enhancer 68k "planned")


Mo Retro

Posts 239
14 Nov 2019 10:29


Simone Bevilacqua wrote:

   
   
Mo Retro wrote:
Are you sure Vojin?
     
      I heard that it was because Simone's previous OS3.x game Skillgrid didn't sell well. that's the reason why he was abandoning the 68K platform when I was asking for it.

   
    This is incorrect: I have never said that SkillGrid didn't sell well nor have I ever abandoned the classic Amiga (in fact, I have quite a number of projects that are waiting to be completed and that I long to work on, although I'm not sure I'll have the chance to).
 

 
  Hi Simone,
  Yesterday your game was posted in the Amiga Disrupt Facebook group by a member. When following the link I saw that there was only a Windows and OS4 version.
I commented that it was a pity that there wasn't an OS3.x version.
  The poster then said:
 
external wrote:

 
  Well, let's just say it like this... Skillgrid came out on OS3.x earlier this year and it was a brilliant game by the same dev...  Guess what, more people have already tried Blastaway than that.
 
 

 
  So that's why I think I jumped to soon the conclusion that you didn't see anything worthy in development for the OS3.x
 
  But I'm very glad that you are doing the contrary.
  I'm also very glad in hoping that you'll keep developing for this growing 68K community that's now ignited by the Apollo Team's Vampire range.


Simone Bevilacqua

Posts 5
14 Nov 2019 12:10


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
Please help me understand where the problem is.
   
  Why is a direct 68k compile not possible?
  What GFX system is used in the game?


I hope you don't mind if I'll keep it short (going deep in the technical details would require too much, sorry).
For full speed, the code would need to be written in assembly. I'm not entirely sure that unexpanded AGA machines (the minimum required to stay close to the original) would be able to handle the tons of moving stuff in the advanced levels - I know it doesn't seem much, but here all graphics are 5 bits, then there are 2 bits shadows, and, on top of everything, additional masking is needed for visual priorities against the walls, doors, etc. On the audio side, the samples resolution would have to be reduced to 8 bits and, of course, there would be less concurrent samples; also, there's a 1 minute piece of music that is not a module, so I'd have to quality-reduce it and play it like I do in SkillGrid.


Simone Bevilacqua

Posts 5
14 Nov 2019 12:12


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
If porting is boring, can we license someone else to do it?

No, sorry (see the other points).
 
Again, list of OS4 dependencies used would be crucial. We have to look for OS3 substitutes, until Hype levels us up (slow process with OS 3.2 and Enhancer 68k "planned")

Unfortunately, I don't get any of this :p


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4840
14 Nov 2019 12:16


Simone Bevilacqua wrote:

   
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
Please help me understand where the problem is.
       
      Why is a direct 68k compile not possible?
      What GFX system is used in the game?

   

    I hope you don't mind if I'll keep it short
   

 
Maybe you misunderstood the original post?
 
 
   
The original request was to compile it for 68K - for the Vampire.
   
The Vampire supports RTG
and is faster than many PPC OS4 AMIGA in memory operations.
 
The Vampire V4 has 512 MB memory.
This means more memory than many OS4 PPC machines.
   
The Vampire support 16bit audio
 
The request was NOT to rewrite the game from scratch in PAL/OCS/AGA.
   
What this means is that normally games could be compiled for such an 68K machine with only simple CPU=68k recompile.

So maybe this is also the case for your game?
Can the game as it is now be simply recompiled for 68k?

What does the game use for rendering SDL/ P96/ CyberGFX/... ?
 
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
14 Nov 2019 12:17


Ok. Could you do vamp games in future (that is 080 80mhz+,fpu,rtg, 128mb+ ram)


Simone Bevilacqua

Posts 5
14 Nov 2019 12:19


Mo Retro wrote:

      Hi Simone,
      Yesterday your game was posted in the Amiga Disrupt Facebook group by a member. When following the link I saw that there was only a Windows and OS4 version.
    I commented that it was a pity that there wasn't an OS3.x version.
      The poster then said:
     
external wrote:

     
      Well, let's just say it like this... Skillgrid came out on OS3.x earlier this year and it was a brilliant game by the same dev...  Guess what, more people have already tried Blastaway than that.
     
     

     
      So that's why I think I jumped to soon the conclusion that you didn't see anything worthy in development for the OS3.x

    Thanks for clarifying.
    Just a few points:
    * I develop exclusively out of passion;
    * developing for classic Amiga is something that I deeply love and I'd do the whole day, if that were possible;
    * for the full background story, please see this post EXTERNAL LINK ;
    * how could anyone know that Blastaway has been played more than SkillGrid? I'm the only one who has the figures, and I can tell you that, at the moment, that statement is false; of course, over time, things will change (the Blastaway user base is much wider and, also, as you'll read in the post I linked above, its gameplay has been designed precisely to attract more people, whereas my other games' gameplay is designed to bring innovation, surprise, challenge, etc.).


Simone Bevilacqua

Posts 5
14 Nov 2019 12:24


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Maybe you misunderstood the original post?
 
 
   
  The original request was to compile it for 68K - for the Vampire.
   
  The Vampire supports RTG
  and is faster than many PPC OS4 AMIGA in memory operations.
 
  The Vampire V4 has 512 MB memory.
  This means more memory than many OS4 PPC machines.
   
  The Vampire support 16bit audio
 
  The request was NOT to rewrite the game from scratch in PAL/OCS/AGA.
   
  So let me ask the question again:
  Can the game as it is now be simply recompiled for 68k?
  What does the game use for rendering SDL/ P96/ CyberGFX/... ? 

Ah, yes, sorry, I was thinking of classic Amiga - that's because, ideally, I would have made the game for that machine and also because what I'm being asked these days. Apologies.
As for what you say, yes, the Vampire would be definitely capable of running Blastaway. The code is 100% C and the only dependency is SDL and SDL_Mixer. That said, the other points I made remain :/


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4840
14 Nov 2019 12:28


Simone Bevilacqua wrote:

As for what you say, yes, the Vampire would be definitely capable of running Blastaway. The code is 100% C and the only dependency is SDL and SDL_Mixer.

Ah super!
Thanks for explaining.

Sounds like a simple "compile cpu=68000" could make it working. :-)



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1698
14 Nov 2019 13:26


Simone Bevilacqua wrote:

.
  As for what you say, yes, the Vampire would be definitely capable of running Blastaway. The code is 100% C and the only dependency is SDL and SDL_Mixer. That said, the other points I made remain :/

We are the new Classic, think of it :)



Samuel Devulder

Posts 246
14 Nov 2019 13:32


Plain C with SDL, yeah a recompilation with Bebbo's amiga-gcc ( EXTERNAL LINK ) might be sufficient then (it provides GCC and SDL + other stuff. It is a great toolchain for porting stuff).


John William

Posts 467
14 Nov 2019 18:28


Simone Bevilacqua wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Maybe you misunderstood the original post?
 
 
   
  The original request was to compile it for 68K - for the Vampire.
   
  The Vampire supports RTG
  and is faster than many PPC OS4 AMIGA in memory operations.
   
  The Vampire V4 has 512 MB memory.
  This means more memory than many OS4 PPC machines.
   
  The Vampire support 16bit audio
 
  The request was NOT to rewrite the game from scratch in PAL/OCS/AGA.
   
  So let me ask the question again:
  Can the game as it is now be simply recompiled for 68k?
  What does the game use for rendering SDL/ P96/ CyberGFX/... ? 
 

  Ah, yes, sorry, I was thinking of classic Amiga - that's because, ideally, I would have made the game for that machine and also because what I'm being asked these days. Apologies.
  As for what you say, yes, the Vampire would be definitely capable of running Blastaway. The code is 100% C and the only dependency is SDL and SDL_Mixer. That said, the other points I made remain :/

I do not get why the other points you made should still remain? If it can be easy as Gunnar von Boehn said, matter of recompile and that is that and maybe spend 4 hours only of your entire month to do minor modifications to make it work....I don't see why not just start right away? You don't need a Vampire V4 hardware for it. You are not going to use any AMMX technology from Vampire itself to make it work...simply..open WinUAE and recompile it from there...poof and release it.

I mean if you refuse to optimize it for Vampire whatsoever and use the new technology V4 have to offer and your limit is recompile and tough for the rest of us...we will take it. Because Vampire is a growing hardware...as years pass by...it will become faster, powerful, more features, eventually the hardware will catch up with the software and take over it and your 68k version (if not optimized correctly) is slow on Vampire...the new and more stronger Vampire hardware will make it go faster.

This is the jungle of computer world. Just port it man. You can see we want it port it. Please, just do it.

posts 19