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Running Games and Apps.

Possibilities of An AC/SAGA System

Markus B

Posts 49
08 Aug 2018 11:05


Given all the nice new features, like improved CPU, RAM speed, SAGA options, AMMX etc., I wonder what kind of games could be done.

I was surprised by this platform game (sorry, German only, but watch the video):
EXTERNAL LINK 
So even nowadays platform/2D games are still there.

How much of that game (ok, maybe not in 1080p) could be done on a V4?
Or is it far beyond the possibilities?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3526
08 Aug 2018 13:25


Markus B wrote:

How much of that game (ok, maybe not in 1080p) could be done on a V4?
Or is it far beyond the possibilities?

Just compare it with "DRAGON CROWN" or "194X Deluxe HD".
Those two are good examples of games which can easily be done on Vamp.



Markus B

Posts 49
08 Aug 2018 19:42


So the system is maxed out with those demos?
To be honest, I can't estimate the difference between those examples, so I'd be interested in an opinion if the given example is out of league.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 20:21


No, since there is v4 Vamp coming.
 
  In short: You will have more then decent CPU for 2D games with AMMX quasi 3D effects, but no real 3D.
 
  That differs it from modern 2D games that often utilize 3D one way or another (meh, that Spencer requires update of an update to run!).
 
  Good news is,if properly used Vamp potential is enough for AGA+ GAME STYLE REVIVAL
 
  Given example is 194x game revival
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  Its best to compare Vamp vs last or most expanded Amiga classics. To compete to modern computers it lacks 200Mhz+ CPU and 3D chip. But has 16-bit sound, modern CPU design, soon USB and a lot of pre-requsites.

Its best to understand "What Vamp is about" from its World Premiere (in Serbian! Turn subtitles on!)
EXTERNAL LINK 
 


Mr Niding

Posts 298
08 Aug 2018 20:40


I would think it somewhat depends on people like Daniel/Daytona for example, that are highly skilled designers and coders, to utilize the full potential of the Apollo Core (be it V2 or 4).

Daniel would probably be able make something like what you linked, but it would require alot of work and effort, so supporting developer(s) is then the name of the game. Time is money afterall.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 20:51


Double Dragon NEON DEMAKE to v2 128mb and v4 512mb versions (music and some details different) would be my candidate
-  that doesnt need 2.4Ghz,1GB RAM and  Shader Model 3+ too much ;-)

Would gladly pay for porting royalties via community bounty
as long as great music and storyline is kept.Sacrifice in graphics is expected, but gameplay should be kept or even improved. Even game kind of depends on movement timings, I bet with sprites it could be better.
Gameplay hardest level
EXTERNAL LINK  Nice promo video on Steam
EXTERNAL LINK 


J.M. Lapilainen

Posts 3
08 Aug 2018 22:40


Markus B wrote:

So even nowadays platform/2D games are still there.

We're living a new golden era of 2D platformers, metroidvanias, roguelites and so on. Dead Cells and other games like Hollow Knight, Axiom Verge, Salt and Sanctuary, Shovel Knight, Shantae series, Rogue Legacy, Bloodstained Curse of the Moon, Hotline Miami, Party Hard and many, many others have raised the bar insanely high, are probably/arguably the best their respective genres have ever offered and very popular.

All of those could most likely be "demaked" to be right at home on Vamp but like already said, it would require someone with skill, time and motivation.

Mr Niding wrote:

I would think it somewhat depends on people like Daniel/Daytona for example, that are highly skilled designers and coders
..
it would require alot of work and effort

Since people with both time and required skills are few, maybe it would be a good idea to support such developer in creating a framework and/or engine which would allow those with less coding experience/skills to jump in and start making games for Amiga/Vampire?

I've been away from Amiga land for quite some time so I don't know, but maybe there's already something existing (Amos, Blitz etc.) open sourced which could be further developed? There's also many open source frameworks for 2D games out there, maybe there's something usable that could be ported or used as a basis for new work?

Anyway, I've heard some indie devs are quite supportive about demaking their (especially older) games for vintage/retro/whatever platforms and some even willing to do it themselves given the inspiration (money, hardware, dev creds) and spare time. It's good publicity and some are genuinely interested about that sort of things. One can always ask :)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 23:39


J.M. Lapilainen wrote:

  Anyway, I've heard some indie devs are quite supportive about demaking their (especially older) games for vintage/retro/whatever platforms and some even willing to do it themselves given the inspiration (money, hardware, dev creds) and spare time. It's good publicity and some are genuinely interested about that sort of things. One can always ask :)

Those few retro coders are our best chance, like so far 68k backports have proven. Giving them a Vampire (Classic + Vamp or Standalone once avail) is a pre-requisite, so I would go that path.

Community sponsors the cards and in return they develop what they can.Its a win win scheme and gets people interested


Mr Niding

Posts 298
09 Aug 2018 00:05


And if you are not a coding wizard, RedPill is a in development game creator, with a responsive dev;

EXTERNAL LINK


Samuel Crow

Posts 317
09 Aug 2018 17:17


J.M. Lapilainen wrote:

 
Mr Niding wrote:

  I would think it somewhat depends on people like Daniel/Daytona for example, that are highly skilled designers and coders
  ..
  it would require alot of work and effort
 

 
  Since people with both time and required skills are few, maybe it would be a good idea to support such developer in creating a framework and/or engine which would allow those with less coding experience/skills to jump in and start making games for Amiga/Vampire?
 
  I've been away from Amiga land for quite some time so I don't know, but maybe there's already something existing (Amos, Blitz etc.) open sourced which could be further developed? There's also many open source frameworks for 2D games out there, maybe there's something usable that could be ported or used as a basis for new work?

AmosPro and AmiBlitz are both open source now, as is AmigaE and several of its variants.  Adding 68080 support to them would bring lots of life to the software already written.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
09 Aug 2018 18:16


+1 for AMOS

What about donating Vampire to Holywood author?

Holywood main website EXTERNAL LINK 
While only couple of games and one buggy webshop were developed in Holywood (well, Holywood Designer EXTERNAL LINK by author is the best app)

it would be great to see next Holywood having 080+SAGA(RTG) support as extension to current -m68k target.

Mind that Holywood is so portable both existing HW apps can be easily backported to m68k/AC080 as well as those developed for it can be exported for all modern OSs.


Samuel Crow

Posts 317
09 Aug 2018 20:00


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

+1 for AMOS
 
  What about donating Vampire to Holywood author?
 
  Holywood main website EXTERNAL LINK 
  While only couple of games and one buggy webshop were developed in Holywood (well, Holywood Designer EXTERNAL LINK by author is the best app)
 
  it would be great to see next Holywood having 080+SAGA(RTG) support as extension to current -m68k target.
 
  Mind that Holywood is so portable both existing HW apps can be easily backported to m68k/AC080 as well as those developed for it can be exported for all modern OSs.

Hollywood is derived from the source code of Lua and is therefore written in C.  Likewise, all of its plugins are written in C or C++ though inline Assembly is possible.  Most of the AmigaOS 3 features including datatypes are supported.

Bebbo's cross compilation framework based on GCC 6.4 has already made PDF viewing and generation possible under Hollywood via plugin, so if anyone needs to get a Vampire v4 system, it's Bebbo.  Once the C and C++ support falls into line, Hollywood gets better performance.  Hollywood leverages lots of cross-platform open source software libraries.  Everything else that's needed can be developed independently as a plug-in.


Eric Gus

Posts 281
09 Aug 2018 20:51


Id put my vote in for AMOS as well .. while others maybe superior in some way or another, there is nothing that gets me in the "amiga coding" frame of mind more than AMOS .. Any future work I create will likely be AMOS but it would be nice to have a Vampire enhanced version that I could utilize new features of.
 
  There is AMOS Kittens that someone is developing to port it to OS4 .. would be a shame to waste it on OS4 ..  AMOS KITTENS github link --> EXTERNAL LINK 
More on Amos Kittens including a feature comaprison chart EXTERNAL LINK


Daniel Sevo

Posts 228
10 Aug 2018 00:04


J.M. Lapilainen wrote:

8><------------------
 
  I've been away from Amiga land for quite some time so I don't know, but maybe there's already something existing (Amos, Blitz etc.) open sourced which could be further developed? There's also many open source frameworks for 2D games out there, maybe there's something usable that could be ported or used as a basis for new work?
 
  Anyway, I've heard some indie devs are quite supportive about demaking their (especially older) games for vintage/retro/whatever platforms and some even willing to do it themselves given the inspiration (money, hardware, dev creds) and spare time. It's good publicity and some are genuinely interested about that sort of things. One can always ask :)

Some time ago I invited one of the devs of the Godot Engine (https://godotengine.org/) to have a look at the Vampire. The idea I had in mind was not to port the entire dev kit to Amiga but rather to make the devkit generate software that would run on Vampire Amigas.
If I recall correctly he showed some interest and I seem to rememebr he showed up here at the forum too.... but I'm not sure how that ended.
The way I see it, the advantage with it is that it's already Open Source under MIT license, its already multi-platform, it has active devs, and already Patreon support going on, meaning Amigans could pitch in.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
10 Aug 2018 14:08


Samuel Crow wrote:

    Everything else that's needed can be developed independently as a plug-in.
   

   
    There are really great plug-ins.
  - Extremely powerful, cross-platform plugin system
  - Publicly available SDK with over 300 pages of documentation and example code
  - Default display driver is completely retargetable through entirely different subsystems (e.g. OpenGL, SDL, ...)
  - Default audio driver is completely retargetable through entirely different subsystems
  - Plugins can add loaders and savers for additional image, animation, sound, and video formats
  - Hollywood's language command set can be extended via plugins
   
    Downloads are examples
    EXTERNAL LINK 
SOME VAMPIRE EXPORT m68k PLUGIN (export 080 MMX RTG-SAGA)would be enough.
-------------
   
    Best option for optimized code remains VASM.Too bad 68k assambly is "other dimension" for grammar school boys.
    EXTERNAL LINK   
  16-May-2017: vasm 1.8.
 
      m68k: Support for Apollo Core 68080 and AMMX ISA.
   

posts 15