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Games Compatibility List...page  1 2 3 

Daytona 675x

Posts 28
03 Jul 2018 14:52


... seems to be a bit optimistic ;)
 
  Turrican III is marked as being OK. Unfortunately it is not.
 
  The game time goes down waaaay too fast, apparently depending on joystick activity. Very often 1 game second is counted as 5.
  GOLD2.9, 2018-06-13, V600V2
 
  Cheers, will check more.

- Hyperion: you lose a life the moment you click LMB to enter the mission, which brings you back to the mission-screen, and so on.




Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
03 Jul 2018 15:21


Hi,
 
  while testing games is a very good idea.
  I would advice to not put much time into testing Games on Gold 2.9.
 
  Gold 3.0 with internal AGA chipset behaves much different.
  If would propose to focus on Gold 3.0 compatibility tests in the future.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 507
03 Jul 2018 16:49


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

    Gold 3.0 with internal AGA chipset behaves much different.
  If would propose to focus on Gold 3.0 compatibility tests in the future.

It would be great to update the compatibility/incompatibility list then.


Rico Suave

Posts 12
04 Jul 2018 13:52


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Hi,
 
  while testing games is a very good idea.
  I would advice to not put much time into testing Games on Gold 2.9.
 
  Gold 3.0 with internal AGA chipset behaves much different.
  If would propose to focus on Gold 3.0 compatibility tests in the future.

I can start testing games today if you want Gunnar. Just send me the GOLD 3 file :D :D :D :D


Daytona 675x

Posts 28
04 Jul 2018 17:30


Seconding Vojin and what Rico said.

I need to decide which turbo-card to stuff into my A600 for the AmigaFuture's area at the upcoming Gamescom 2018.
It will become the card config that I can test now and during the next two weeks or so and which runs more stable and / or has better games support. Right now the V2 seems to be the less favorable choice though, but we'll see, too early for a final verdict ;)

Anyway, that's why I cannot wait. So regarding the V2 I will use what is known to be the best core available now, and I thought it was the 2.9 (note that the T3 issue also happend with the core the card was sold to me, so it's nothing new).

Speaking of stability: is there any known heat / stability issue with the v2 and the 2.9 x10 core? Because after running e.g. Deliverance for about 10 minutes after cold boot, the RGB output becomes, hm, flaky (like purple tinted, slight annoying random color variations here and there etc., PSU is fine, so is the RGB -> Scart cable, A600 is recapped). And after about maybe 25 minutes of WHDLoad-Testing some games fail completely with a black screen (e.g. the abovementioned Deliverance).

If it's a known core problem: which is the best most stable reliable core to downgrade to, also considering my WHDLoad needs?

Cheers


Thomas Blatt

Posts 106
04 Jul 2018 17:42


@Daytona i take my Amiga600 with Vampire 2 to Gamescom


Thomas Blatt

Posts 106
04 Jul 2018 17:45


Maybe Gunnar give us Gold3 Beta for the Gamescom


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
04 Jul 2018 18:16


Daytona 675x wrote:

If it's a known core problem: which is the best most stable reliable core to downgrade to, also considering my WHDLoad needs?

Do only want to play WHDLOAD?
Or are we talking here about SCUM VM, Quake 1/2, MAC OS games too?

Is this a new V600 2.1 from Igor?
Or and old card from Kippa?
   
If its an old card did you then apply the Cap-fix to it?
You should not use cores > 2.5 without Cap fixes on old V600
 
Regarding HEAT, its a fact that the A600 always got hot inside even without any accelerator card, and the A600 has bad ventilation, and right now its very hot in Europe too.

Therefore in an A600 people might have a general heat issue right now, thanks to the design of the A600.
 


Rico Suave

Posts 12
04 Jul 2018 18:49


Hi Gunnar,

Do all V600's from Kippa have problems and need cap-fixes? I have one from Kippa as well (I think its one one his last batches as he quit quite soon after mine was shipped). I have no issues, but havent actually stressed or even used  the card properly yet.




Daytona 675x

Posts 28
04 Jul 2018 19:11


Kipper2k, payed 2017-03-25, received some months later. So I wouldn't consider it "old".
Check out the registration mails you got on 2018-06-30, mine is there (as well as an unanswered question).

Solder? Me? Kidding? :D
So you tell me it's broken by design?! Ouch, that's crap.

For which games? It's for the Gamescom, what do you think? Of course everything that costly thingy can deliver. Otherwise I could also stick with a stock A600 :P

So far I had no such stability issues with other turbo-cards in my A600, not even with the Furia 060.
And while it may be hot in Europe, it's not hot in my buro :)
I have the symptoms I described only with the Vampire.

But well, if my V2's hardware is flaky from the beginning, no wonder :P Then I'll try the 2.5 core and hope that's good enough to deliver more than 10 minutes of reliability :( Damn.



Adam Whittaker

Posts 150
04 Jul 2018 19:49


its 2 capacitors and it really is quick and easy to do - the amount of people i come across with retro computers that are afraid of a little soldering is shocking... it goes hand in hand with old computers the all need repairs at some point!


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 210
04 Jul 2018 20:16


Daytona: go to gamescon with what you think is the best amiga you have. And stop trolling here, thank you


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
04 Jul 2018 22:19


Daytona 675x wrote:

.. stability issues ..

1) What PSU do you use?
How old is it and how many A does it provide on the 5V?

2) What other devices are attached to your Amiga?
What CF do you use?
What CF adapter?
Memory expansion?
Flicker Fixers?
PCMCIA cards?

3) Which OS do you use?

4) When using WHDLOAD, which version of WHDLOAD do you use?
Have you enabled the Turtle mode for playing games in the SLAVE?
E.g. NOCACHE tooltype?




Mr Niding

Posts 290
04 Jul 2018 22:28


@Daytona

Kipper2k chose to use different caps than adviced.

Those with Kipper2k cards are adviced to do a cap fix to fix this issue, to ensure stability at higher core speeds. Ive personally not done the cap fix, but have only used the lower speed core versions.


Daytona 675x

Posts 28
05 Jul 2018 07:26


@the fanboy clown:
Phew, I see: the kind of guy who farts inside an elevator and then points to the guy next to him... Please spread your clearance in another thread, will you?

@Adam Whittaker:
May certainly be quick and easy for somebody without two left shaky hands. I however know my limits. That's why I got my old machines recapped by professionals. And that's also why I didn't buy a DIY-kit but a deluxe turbo-card from professionals.
The only shocking thing here is that I am told to recap a fresh device from mid 2017 now, sorry.

@Thomas Blatt:
I suppose you got more luck with yours then? Good to know that we got at least one such setup there then.

@Gunnar von Boehn
I downgraded to gold 2.5 as you recommended and made the Deliverance-test (actually it's enough to just boot to WB and do nothing).
Unfortunately no change, at least the primary symptoms remain identical, after about ten minutes the RGB signal becomes flaky as described above.
I also tried the following: to somewhat rule out a flaky PSU (which maybe outputs shit when getting warm) I waited ~ 10 min. until the symptoms appeared, then turned off the machine and quickly attached a different PSU (one I successfully use for one of my A1200). Result: purplish flicker from boot on. Turned off, waited some minutes, turned on: all good for again for some minutes.

I also tried what happens if leaving the A600 opened. Same issue. And yes, the card becomes pretty hot, made the finger test: uncomfortable, still tolerable ;)

What also happened this morning: temporarily I got no picture anymore at all, all black from cold-boot on. Sound was working (have xbench installed, so sth. is happening by default). Luckily it's back again... Weird.

1) it is a recapped A1200 PSU (recapped in 2015 IIRC). I don't have equipment for measuring anything. All I can tell you is that it works good enough to flawlessly power this A600 if instead equipped with a Furia060 and an A1200 with Indyvision MK2, ACA1230 and an A1200 with Apollo1260. All machines used to be equipped with a CF-IDE adapter but by now all got a Kalea SD-IDE converter (which at least works fine for any other setup, actually more reliable than the recommended CF-adapter / CF-card used before).

2)
- some Sandisk 4GB SD
- Kalea SD-IDE converter
- no memory expansion other than the Vampire 2
- no Flicker fixers
- no PCMCIA cards (sometimes a CF-PCMCIA-adapter is plugged in for a short period of time for data transfer)

3/4)
- OS: Kickstart 3.1, WB 3.1
- WHDLoad-version: 18.2.5735
- Turtle mode: not tried
- Tooltypes: no modifications

@Mr Niding
Ah, thanks for that background info. Damn, bad luck then maybe. Note that I didn't use cores higher than x10.
Does that possibly match the issues I get? Then I'd at least know what to do: carry this thing to the next retro-Dr. and give it a recap.



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
05 Jul 2018 07:52


Daytona 675x wrote:

after about ten minutes the RGB signal becomes flaky as described above.

Well, the RGB signal is not generated by the Vampire but by the Amiga mainboard. Very hard to remote diagnose, but it sounds like a problem of the Amiga mainboard.
 
Daytona 675x wrote:

I also tried the following: to somewhat rule out a flaky PSU (which maybe outputs shit when getting warm) I waited ~ 10 min. until the symptoms appeared, then turned off the machine and quickly attached a different PSU (one I successfully use for one of my A1200).

Not sure that this rules out much.
 
Please note:

An original good/strong A500 power supply used to have 4.5 Ampere on 5V.
The weaker A500 power supplies were sold with 2.5 Ampere on 5V.
The original A1200 power supply did had 3.0 Ampere on 5V.
 
The Vampire has the world fastest 68K CPU,
and also the fasted AMIGA memory controller
with 128 MB fastmemory running at 160 MHz.
"With great power comes great responsibility in regard proper working PSU."
 
An old/aged power supply will have less Ampere and might not produce stable voltage if pulled to the max, it could then create a jitter which is bad and can cause many problems even hardware damage.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
05 Jul 2018 08:18


Daytona 675x wrote:

    3/4)
    - OS: Kickstart 3.1, WB 3.1
    - WHDLoad-version: 18.2.5735
    - Turtle mode: not tried
    - Tooltypes: no modifications
 

 
As you know, many old games and demos had coding bugs.
Very often WAITBLIT was missing, or delay Loops were used e.g. for DMA delay waits like needed for PAULA players.
Many programs work only by accident, and only as long the CPU is relative slow.
 
 
WHDLOAD slaves sometimes fix those bugs, but not always.
As these bugs were not always fixed by WHDLOAD the general advice for running WHDLOAD games on high end systems is to turn the CPU caches off in the WHDLOAD tooltypes of the game.
 
You might know that the APOLLO fastmemory controller can read up to 600 MB/sec.
This is magnitudes faster than any AMIGA memory controller before ever was.
Our fastmem is even much faster than any 68K family member 1st level caches ever were - therefore its clear that turning off the caches does not slow APOLLO as much down as any old CPU.

Even without Caches APOLLO is still magnitudes faster than any 68030 CPU.

To support old bad code, APOLLO snoops the turning off of the caches - and if you turn of the Caches - Apollo assumed you really wanted to run slow - and runs on purpose even slower than it would. We call this feature "TURTLE" mode.
For running old/bad coded games I would always advice using this TURTLE mode.
 
 
Please note that turning of the Caches system wide - had zero effect on WHDLOAD. If you launch a game WHDLOAD will set the caches to whatever state you tell it with the tooltypes.
 


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
05 Jul 2018 08:51


Rico Suave wrote:

  Hi Gunnar,
 
  Do all V600's from Kippa have problems and need cap-fixes? 
 

 
Hi Rico,
 
As far as I know a number V600 were produced with smaller caps than defined.

While all those card were tested by Kippa and ran stable,
the cores that Kippy used at that time are not the same cores as we offer now.
 
The new cores support much faster memory clocks and also include the powerful FPU. Its goes without saying that the FPU and much faster memory will eat more power.
 
I would generally advice to "pimp" the caps on all V600 from Kippa before using any new cores with FPU.
 


Daytona 675x

Posts 28
05 Jul 2018 09:19


@Gunnar von Boehn
pure software trouble:
Yes, I know, that's what your compatibility list should tell us.

hardware trouble:
short summary of suggestions and results so far:

- core downgrade: no effect (and the effects happend with the core originally installed as well).
- summer-heat: ruled out.
- general A600-design heat issue: ruled out.
- PSU issue: unlikely, recapped, tried various, heavy A1200 setups work 100% flawlessly with those, problems obviously only depend on time-A600-is-on-and-time-you-let-it-cool-down, totally independent of the PSU used or time PSU in use.
- recapping v2: will let a pro do it.
- main-board issue: of course it may simply be that sth. else died by coincidence just now when I finally actually use the v2. Will remove it and check.

Note that when I say "RGB flaky" it boils down to "purplish colors, flicker (white / purplish color changes)", which probably doesn't necessarily have sth. to do with the RGB-out per se.
Also note that there is the "after ~25 minutes some games that work just fine before refuse to start at all with a black screen, consistently"-issue.

Anyway, yes, it's certainly hard to remote diagnose such stuff. Thanks for the hints and @Niding for additional cap-issue info. So I'll remove it for recapping and en passant check for a sudden general mainboard issue and report back then.

Cheers,
Daniel


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3515
05 Jul 2018 09:42


Daytona 675x wrote:

- recapping v2: will let a pro do it.

 
Hi Daniel, the V2 pimping might be much easier to do than you think.
Even my 10 year old son did the soldering to pimp his Vamp by himself.
 
Regarding WHDLOAD, my experience with WHDLOAD is that WHDLOAD can be crashed easily by running something throwing IRQ in the background.
E.g. WHDLOAD does not like very much active networks.

Some more questions, you have fixed your V600 properly to the Mainboard, right?
Do you have a USB Blaster ?

If you not run WHDLOAD but run RTG /Picasso96 on the WB.
Is the WB then stable?



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