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Running Games and Apps.

GnGeo (NeoGeo) WIP Port On GOLD2.7 WIPpage  1 2 3 4 5 6 

Saladriel Amrael

Posts 115
21 Aug 2018 16:34


Uh, I see (posted a very similar question here, time ago), it makes sense: that's the same reason why most OCS/ECS games won't run on a faster CPU Amiga, afterall.
  The only other option would be to implement some sort of "NGHDload" engine to patch game roms once fed to the emulator if willing not to emulate the 68000, but it would be too much of an effort methinks ;)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
21 Aug 2018 18:27


Saladriel Amrael wrote:

Uh, I see (posted a very similar question here, time ago), it makes sense: that's the same reason why most OCS/ECS games won't run on a faster CPU Amiga, afterall.
    The only other option would be to implement some sort of "NGHDload" engine to patch game roms once fed to the emulator if willing not to emulate the 68000, but it would be too much of an effort methinks ;)

Soon v4 Vamps will reach sufficient speed to emulate OCS A500 or ECS A500+, so that could be "killed by UAE" thing. Coffin usually contains tested WHDLoads that are proven to work.



Eric Gus

Posts 336
21 Aug 2018 20:11


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  WHDLoads that are proven to work.
 

Though sadly there are not always WHDLoads for things that only want to run on a stock-ish A500 , Like "Electronic Arts Instant Music" .. I can not get it to work outside of a 68000/KS 1.3/512kb chip machine ... and as far as I have searched, there is no WHDLoad slave for it..


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
21 Aug 2018 21:24


Niclas A wrote:

fano Il Primo wrote:

  A curiosity the emulator is emulating a Motorola 68000 on a Motorola 680x0 or the instruction are directly fed to the CPU?
 
  In the end the Amiga and Neo Geo CPU are the same is the rest of the system that is different.
 

 
  Very simplified answer.
 
  The problem emulating a console is that often games are very tightly written to the hardware. It expects a sertain speed of the CPU etc. Thats why most of the time you emulate everything in a controlled loop. So even if the CPU is the same you still emulate it togehter with the rest of the chipset.

The reason is very simple.
The NEOGEO Emulator was never intended to run on an AMIGA - but was developed for PC. Of course emulating the 68K was always needed on an x86 PC.

The AMIGA Port could in theory remove this - and run the 68K native.
But this will be a major change to the emulator and extra work,
Therefore its was not done yet.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
21 Aug 2018 21:36


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

    A curiosity the emulator is emulating a Motorola 68000 on a Motorola 680x0 or the instruction are directly fed to the CPU?
 
  The NEOGEO Emulator was never intended to run on an AMIGA - but was developed for PC. Of course emulating the 68K was always needed on an x86 PC.
 
 

 
  Surely, emulation could be optimized / current build will surely run a bit faster on future core revisions and V4
 
  The first idea is nice. Maybe V4/V6? LE space could enable adding some modes of abandoned 68k based consoles so we get a "native and exact" emulation. Such moves, similar to current Atari 16-bit implementation, could attract retro gamers.
 
  Again, dont want to distract from main Apollo/SAGA route, but best 68k CPU seems to give weird options :-)
 
  Saturn and Jaguar include too much other HW,but NeoGeo and Genesis dont need much - an Zilog CPU even Warsaw pact copied, some Yamaha old sound chips and some display modes.
 


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
21 Aug 2018 21:55


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  but NeoGeo and Genesis dont need much - an Zilog CPU even Warsaw pact copied, some Yamaha old sound chips and some display modes.

Well, actually the NEOGEO HW was pretty strong.

It had 64000 colors
It has very many audio channels, a lot more than AMIGA.
And it had huge number of sprites, ~ 100 per row, ~400 per Screen
And also supported HW Flipping, Mirror and Zooming
 
NEOGEO HW was very strong. A very good machine for 2D games


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 272
22 Aug 2018 00:56


The GnGeo port would be something else that could have a bounty system if this was desired. For example bypassing the 68K emulation. Is that the biggest performance bottleneck?




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
22 Aug 2018 07:07


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
        NEOGEO HW was very strong. A very good machine for 2D games
     

     
      All that with 12Mhz 68k and a z80 (and a sound chip)! My salute to software and hardware developers! I see no dedicated 2D chips!
     
      So could Apolo do the 68k math, display modes be SAGA native and sound emulated by Pamela? This kind of "skinned" emulator like ShapeShifter where more things are native (at least 68k calls) so we dont "double emulate"? z80 should be piece of cake to emulate for Vamp class HW.
     
      Point is, you said x86 emulation is important. Not really at this point. If we can access similar or better productivity tools on Mac/Atari side (this would require FALCON modes and DSP emu!) and higher quality console games then DOS counterparts after Amiga vanished, this gives a better quality software library. PC got good name after NT4, Pentium and 3D chips, hights we cant (yet) reach. As you say, there were "other 2D kings" and NeoGeo seems to be one of them. Jahtari still uses Ataris for music, so there are other champs in other areas. Mac Classic was productivity tool, too expensive and rare in Europe, but really was. That is why I embraced these two ideas, as implemented so far.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
23 Aug 2018 06:08


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

My salute to software and hardware developers! I see no dedicated 2D chips!

NEO GEO 2D game power is based on its Sprite-Engines.
It supports ~ 400 Sprites each 16 colors.
Technically speaking the NEO-GEO Sprite HW is a dedicated 2D chip.
   
   
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

So could Apolo do the 68k math, display modes be SAGA native and sound emulated by Pamela?

The 400 Sprites can be displayed on Apollo using AMMX.
You need a lot horse power to do this - but Apollo and AMMX have enough.

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

This kind of "skinned" emulator like ShapeShifter where more things are native (at least 68k calls) so we dont "double emulate"?

Running the 68000 code native could be done - but will be extra coding work to change the emulator.

       
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Point is, you said x86 emulation is important.

It depends what you want to do.

If you like to play on your AMIGA "FALLOUT", "DIABLO", "STAR-CRAFT", or some strategy games like "PANZER-GENERAL" then x86 emulation would allow this.

You are right that NEOGEO emulation adds some hundred good 2D games.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
23 Aug 2018 06:31


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Running the 68000 code native could be done - but will be extra coding work to change the emulator.
 

All for it, since like in Shapeshifter it does bring performance, hereby possibility to make it usable on V2s.
       

  It depends what you want to do.
 
  If you like to play on your AMIGA "FALLOUT", "DIABLO", "STAR-CRAFT", or some strategy games like "PANZER-GENERAL" then x86 emulation would allow this.
  You are right that NEOGEO emulation adds some hundred good 2D games.

Well, these are all great titles, but been through them. Some weird Jap console that was great, is kind of more attractive, at least to I. And many of those above are having open engines and possibility to be ported directly.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
23 Aug 2018 06:40


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Well, these are all great titles, but been through them. Some weird Jap console that was great, is kind of more attractive, at least to I.

Different people, different taste. :-)
Some people like Tea more than Coffee.
The Vamp has enough horse power to open a lot of options.
Being them running NEOGEO Games as right now.
BTW Also a Capcom emulator would be awesome for the future - there were some very good Capdom Arcade games.

I know there are many people which liked very much those x86 DOS games as "Command and Conquer" or "Star-Craft".



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
23 Aug 2018 11:07


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  BTW Also a Capcom emulator would be awesome for the future - there were some very good Capdom Arcade games.
 
  I know there are many people which liked very much those x86 DOS games as "Command and Conquer" or "Star-Craft".

Yup, Capcom Arcades were the real "gaming machines" of the time, eaten a lot of my money. Consoles and Amiga were a pale shadow of originals.

I am fan of C&C and SC but, as I said, their engines are open sourced by now, and SC and SC2 until ep 2 and 3 are offered free to play by simply registering Blizz account. Thus I find retro console and rare computers with 68k far more tempting.

Like you said, if we could have 1Ghz Apollo and optimized Pentium MMX emulation, that WOULD change the game. But until then ...



Stefano Briccolani

Posts 332
23 Aug 2018 11:45


I think the neogeo is a good starting point. It shows that there's no need for a 1 ghz cpu to run this games. If the neogeo emulator on vampire will be able to run games at full speed with sound then vampire could surely run cps (capcom) games as well.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
23 Aug 2018 19:15


Stefano Briccolani wrote:

  with sound then vampire could surely run cps (capcom) games as well.
 

 
  And these are the REALLY best and most popular games of 90s (and arcades lived a lot longer) who were just "downported" to 16-bit computers and consoles. With exception of some SEGA and Nintendo exclusive titles, that is the BEST gaming library we could get.


Thomas Blatt

Posts 156
24 Aug 2018 08:12


This game is an exemplary game or killer app
  Works it with NeoGeoEmulator?
  EXTERNAL LINK


Mo Retro

Posts 231
24 Aug 2018 17:21


Thomas Blatt wrote:

This game is an exemplary game or killer app
  Works it with NeoGeoEmulator?
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Hmm a lot of Turrican-nesque elements like music and gameplay :)


Daniel Sevo

Posts 270
24 Aug 2018 23:03


You can simply play Turrican on vanilla A500 and pretend it's the Amiga port of Gunlord ;-)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1421
24 Aug 2018 23:43


Daniel Sevo wrote:

You can simply play Turrican on vanilla A500 and pretend it's the Amiga port of Gunlord ;-)

:-) Well, the problem is GunLord is too much Turrican like, but looks easier. Thats good.

Once we get some OpenGL (Warp3D was enough in OS4 port) and SDL we could backport Hurrican  ARM one EXTERNAL LINK  PC one, pics and info EXTERNAL LINK
Port for AROS exist.

But that is just Turrican-like. There are lot great NeoGeo titles,I am sure.

Retro gamers top 10 NeoGeo
EXTERNAL LINK 
Undiscovered gems
EXTERNAL LINK


Mo Retro

Posts 231
25 Aug 2018 11:57


Mo Retro wrote:

Thomas Blatt wrote:

  This game is an exemplary game or killer app
    Works it with NeoGeoEmulator?
    EXTERNAL LINK 

  Hmm a lot of Turrican-nesque elements like music and gameplay :)

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Daniel Sevo wrote:

  You can simply play Turrican on vanilla A500 and pretend it's the Amiga port of Gunlord ;-)
 

 
  :-) Well, the problem is GunLord is too much Turrican like, but looks easier. Thats good.
 
  Once we get some OpenGL (Warp3D was enough in OS4 port) and SDL we could backport Hurrican  ARM one EXTERNAL LINK  PC one, pics and info EXTERNAL LINK
  Port for AROS exist.
 

Nothing wrong in borrowing elements from Turrican. My remarque above was meant positively :)

And indeed Vojin I also would like to see a port of Hurrican on the V2 and/or V4 :D.
That would be quite something.:D


Master APEX

Posts 19
17 Mar 2019 16:22


Where can I get the latest version?
Why is all this stuff only available downloading Coffin image?

I copied now the GNGeo folder to my self installed Amiga system.
If I try to start a game via icon or try to run gngeo via shell I am getting this error:
gngeo.exe: Fehler -1



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