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Nicolas Sipieter
(Needs Verification)
Posts 115/ 1
07 Oct 2017 23:23
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what a sad creature. i hope it will go somewhere else now.shoo!
/me throw some pebbles at kolbjørn
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Sean Sk
Posts 488
07 Oct 2017 23:25
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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and should worry other people as well
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Sorry mate, but that only worries you, it doesnt worry me. Why would I want to use Linux on my Amiga? If I wanted to use Linux, I'd run it on my X86 PC.
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Ian Parsons
Posts 230
07 Oct 2017 23:36
| sean sk wrote:
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Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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and should worry other people as well
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Sorry mate, but that only worries you, it doesnt worry me. Why would I want to use Linux on my Amiga? If I wanted to use Linux, I'd run it on my X86 PC.
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Or you can run it on a choice of hundreds of SBC, all cheaper and more powerful than any FPGA based system.Running Linux or any other non-Amiga like OS on an "Amiga" with the possible exception of other 68K only OSes like TOS or Mac classic OS is rather pointless and something of a betrayal of the objectives of the Apollo-team at this point.
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Kolbjørn Barmen
(Needs Verification)
Posts 219/ 2
07 Oct 2017 23:37
| You are missing the point - what made Linux possible on Amiga in the first place? What was it that made it take so much longer to get Linux and the BSDs to mature on on 68k Mac compared to on Amiga, Atari etc?
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Ian Parsons
Posts 230
07 Oct 2017 23:42
| Mac was not a tinkerers machine, Apple kept it's hardware implementation to itself.
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Kolbjørn Barmen
(Needs Verification)
Posts 219/ 2
07 Oct 2017 23:43
| Ian Parsons wrote:
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Mac was not a tinkerers machine, Apple kept it's hardware implementation to itself.
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Congrats!
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
07 Oct 2017 23:43
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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Mr Niding wrote:
| What is it really that torments you with Apollo? The lack of MMU to the extent it wont run your favorite Linux distro?
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Not at all, as Gunnar has pointed out hundreds of times, the MMU is right there, it is modern and feature rich. As will the FPU be. Brilliant stuff. What torments me, and should worry other people as well, is not that I will not be able to use Vampire cards for my Gentoo/m68k cruft, but _why_ there will not be any Linux for any system running Apollo Core.
What makes the Apollo Core different from just about _any_ CPU design on the planet?
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Good grief. Why don't you troll a Linux forum and give us a break. Maybe you don't realize that the Vampire was designed by Amiga users for Amiga users. Linux was never a design goal. If it bothers you so much, why don't you stop all the whining and make yourself useful by porting your precious Gentoo to the Vampire instead of alienating and annoying almost everyone here. If you are tormented and worried because there's no Linux on the Vampire then I suggest you get back on your meds or seek some psychiatric help, or both. This is a hobby. There are much better things to be worried or tormented over.
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Kolbjørn Barmen
(Needs Verification)
Posts 219/ 2
07 Oct 2017 23:47
| Steve Ferrell wrote:
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Why don't you troll a Linux forum and give us a break.
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Because this has zero to do with Linux. I think it is a missed opportunity, but I don't care one jolt about not being able to run Linux on Apollo Core. If I say that the Vampire is the hardware to run a hypervisor implemented in FPGA to host a virtual Amiga, what do you say?
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6220
07 Oct 2017 23:57
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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I think it is a missed opportunity,
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You spend a lot time complaining.
What you do not understand is that HW development takes a lot of time.
Nothing you propose is clever or new to the team.
The team is aware of all options, and the team has a very clear plan to what is worked on in which order.
I would advice you to lay back and wait.
And if you do not want to wait doing nothing - then do something useful for AMIGA.
And stop wasting people time with your trolling or your will be banned from this side.
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
08 Oct 2017 00:36
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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Steve Ferrell wrote:
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Why don't you troll a Linux forum and give us a break.
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Because this has zero to do with Linux. I think it is a missed opportunity, but I don't care one jolt about not being able to run Linux on Apollo Core.
If I say that the Vampire is the hardware to run a hypervisor implemented in FPGA to host a virtual Amiga, what do you say?
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If I want to run a virtual Amiga, I have WinUAE. Now, please go away and stop all the bi-polar behavior.
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David Wright
Posts 373
08 Oct 2017 01:13
| There is a strong sense of Aspergers on this forum.
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Thierry Atheist
Posts 644
08 Oct 2017 01:14
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
| | If I say that the Vampire is the hardware to run a hypervisor implemented in FPGA to host a virtual Amiga, what do you say? |
Virtual? Vampire is "The Real Deal"!The only "virtual"/Vampire combo I want to see is "reality".
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Nixus Minimax
Posts 416
08 Oct 2017 07:37
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
| What torments me ... is ... _why_ there will not be any Linux for any system running Apollo Core.
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You are making this up. You can port linux to Apollo Core if you want to and if you can. Please make the necessary changes to the toolchain, too, while you are at it.
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Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393
08 Oct 2017 18:59
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
| | That cannot be done using Amiga OS, and there are way more shiny race roads elsewhere. AROS you say? Yes, but then there are way faster systems on which AROS runs much better. But no compatibility with Amiga software you say? Well, that is the damn potato acre. |
Who's with me and Kolbjørn?
Let's give up on this fiasco and get a cheapo raspberry PiIi!!
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You go buy a raspberry pi. They are pretty cheap. The rest of your negativity is not needed, thank you very much
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Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393
08 Oct 2017 19:09
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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Mr Niding wrote:
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You couldnt keep it civil. Good way of living up to your avatar.
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Keeping it civic was exactly what I was doing, there are other ways to describe it that are not considered civic. And the avatar is something Gunnar has put on me, I would have chosen something from Kittelsen, not this weird thing.
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That's a troll under a bridge ^^
If Gunnar set that for your profile picture, as you say, maybe there is a clever reason for it xD
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Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393
08 Oct 2017 19:17
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
| | Having a new/modern designed FPU does allow to do new stuff.
Maybe something like to write fullspeed PLAYSTATION ONE emulator
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Actually, I did have an emulator for PS1 on my Amiga. It was slow as dung, though, but maybe the creator of that emulator could optimize his work for the Apollo core. I don't remember what the emulator was called, but I found it on Aminet. Maybe the team could find it and reach out to him
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Vojin Vidanovic
Posts 770
08 Oct 2017 19:38
| sean sk wrote:
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Sorry mate, but that only worries you, it doesnt worry me. Why would I want to use Linux on my Amiga? If I wanted to use Linux, I'd run it on my X86 PC.
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Linux is NOT an x86 thing. Its not an Amiga thing either, but why not? m68k Linux is stone age compared to modern x86 distros with Kernel 2.x and GNOME apps, but yet offers apps that rest of m68k software currently can match. And that is all about it.
Using ApolloMMU as last argument to bitch about is stupid, as MMUless Linux kernel is possible.
I expect problem to self resolve in a year or so, with Motorola MMU compatibility added somewhat in some future core update, likely v4 only due to space contrains. And thats all about it. Will we ever need Enforcer and such 060 style hacks on Apollo is questionable, since it seems such limits our things of past, step by step.Ian Parsons wrote:
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Running Linux or any other non-Amiga like OS on an "Amiga" with the possible exception of other 68K only OSes like TOS or Mac classic OS is rather pointless and something of a betrayal of the objectives of the Apollo-team at this point.
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No, its not, its just a pleasent possible addition to running AmigaOS (AmiKit/ApolloOS) smoothly, just like other m68k OSs are, be it AROS 68k or emuTOS, or MacOS Classic. Each OS has its goods and bad sides, and most benefitial, apps!
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Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393
08 Oct 2017 19:50
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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Mr Niding wrote:
| What is it really that torments you with Apollo? The lack of MMU to the extent it wont run your favorite Linux distro?
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Not at all, as Gunnar has pointed out hundreds of times, the MMU is right there, it is modern and feature rich. As will the FPU be. Brilliant stuff. What torments me, and should worry other people as well, is not that I will not be able to use Vampire cards for my Gentoo/m68k cruft, but _why_ there will not be any Linux for any system running Apollo Core.
What makes the Apollo Core different from just about _any_ CPU design on the planet?
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Why does the Amiga need Linux? There are tons of other systems that may run Linux much better. Vampire powers up the Amiga OS, AROS and Amiga software. Why transform a pair of dice for Yatzy into cards for Poker?
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Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393
08 Oct 2017 19:56
| Kolbjørn Barmen wrote:
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You are missing the point - what made Linux possible on Amiga in the first place?
What was it that made it take so much longer to get Linux and the BSDs to mature on on 68k Mac compared to on Amiga, Atari etc?
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Interest, or lack thereof, made it take so much longer
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6220
08 Oct 2017 19:56
| Lets answer this.
uLinux runs certainly today on APOLLO just fine.
But Linux is slow compared to AMIGA OS or ATARI TOS.
And LINUX gui does today not know SAGA Screenmodes.
So to make LINUX use truecolor on VAMP you will want to add drivers for SAGA RTG, ideally with AMMX code to make the Linux GUI faster.
This will be some work for coders.
While this can be done.
I think today our development times are better spend on improving OS 3 and ATARI.
As APOLLO 68080 is really a huge step forward for these OS.
AMIGA OS and ATARI TOS are both nice and highly tuned OS.
They run well on 7MHz CPUs, and on APOLLO they really fly and feel on VAMP as fast as LINUX on a GigaHerz PC.You have to understand one thing.
AMIGA OS is designed for fast speed - and AMIGA OS by design and on purpose compromises security for this.
On AMIGA OS you can call a OS function with a simple JSR.
For a single clock cycle! On Linux the design choice is the opposite.
Linux on purpose sacrifices speed for security and multi users.
A task can not see other memory, and calling OS functions is by design magnitudes more costly than on AMIGA or ATARI. Linux will run great and super fast on APOLLO when we have Gigaherz ASICs. On VAMP2 Linux will by design be really slow compared to ATARI and AMIGA OS.
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Performance and Benchmark Results!