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Steve Ferrell

Posts 241
08 Aug 2018 05:36


Tim Waite wrote:

  PCx was from Utilities Unlimited that Jim Drew and Joe Fenton worked at.  Later in 1995 they founded Microcode Solutions and sold a lot of the UU items with updated versions and removed the requirement of the Emplant board.
 
  Joe Fenton ported PCx to MACOS later.
  EXTERNAL LINK   
  Here is some more history.
  EXTERNAL LINK   
  PCx demo on Aminet.
  EXTERNAL LINK   
 
 
 
 

 
Thanks for the Aminet link.  I've never used PCx but based on the link you provided it appears that PCx is a bit more advanced than PC-Task in that it supports the Pentium instruction set and has SoundBlaster support, albeit in monaural sound.  Sounds like it's the better option of the two.  I hope Jim has cooled down and continues working on an AMMX version.
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 07:22


Steve Ferrell wrote:

Sounds like it's the better option of the two.  I hope Jim has cooled down and continues working on an AMMX version. 

That is very nice, but if I do get it right, it never had AmigaOS final version? Also, while being significant improvement over PC Task is heavily lagging beyond what Bosch is now.

So,instead of hoping on Jim, I would opt for team and bounty on Boschs.



Stefano Briccolani

Posts 219
08 Aug 2018 07:53


But,is there someone who have tried Boschs in his current build on Vampire?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 08:43


Stefano Briccolani wrote:

But,is there someone who have tried Boschs in his current build on Vampire?

There is no Boschs for m68k yet. Its good its open source and that there is a Linux version for possible m68k Linux backporting.

In quest for more apps, m68k Linux could be most native and fastest path, maybe easier then this one. It just need a 080 kernel.


Kef Emzy

Posts 16
08 Aug 2018 09:11


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

    There is no Boschs for m68k yet. Its good its open source and that there is a Linux version for possible m68k Linux backporting.

 
  AFAIK, Boschs currently lack jit, so it would be unbelievably slow for 68k. Even for vampire. ;)
 
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
 
    In quest for more apps, m68k Linux could be most native and fastest path, maybe easier then this one. It just need a 080 kernel.

 
  Without jit, the speed would still be inferior to pc-task && pcx.
 


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 219
08 Aug 2018 10:22


But there's a 68k port of dosbox by novacoder if I remember correctly..


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 13:50


Stefano Briccolani wrote:

  But there's a 68k port of dosbox by novacoder if I remember correctly..
 

 
  Yes, but DOS Box is 486 emulator too :)

Kef Emzy wrote:

  Without jit, the speed would still be inferior to pc-task && pcx.

Likely, but it could be developed. Contrary, software "dead in development" or "seized by developers" cannot go any further.


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 219
08 Aug 2018 16:26


I think that 486 dx100 performances could be a target reachable for vampire cards in dos emulation (ammx optimized). A good emulation of that platform will open a new breed of games (expecially in the strategy/simulation genre)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
08 Aug 2018 17:02


Stefano Briccolani wrote:

  I think that 486 dx100 performance
 

 
  Agreed but with CDROM, SVGA, and 8MB+ extended RAM,so "newer" (then Amiga titles) DOS games and apps can be played/run, as well as that some form of NT 4.0 might run on it as high end goal.

Reaching at least Pentium MMX would enable some more games, even Windows 2000 and ReactOS as modern free incarnation.


Kef Emzy

Posts 16
09 Aug 2018 07:52


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Stefano Briccolani wrote:

  I think that 486 dx100 performance
 

 
  Agreed but with CDROM, SVGA, and 8MB+ extended RAM,so "newer" (then Amiga titles) DOS games and apps can be played/run, as well as that some form of NT 4.0 might run on it as high end goal.
 
  Reaching at least Pentium MMX would enable some more games, even Windows 2000 and ReactOS as modern free incarnation.

Agreed, P5 (microarchitecture) MMX seem like a good target. Not in speed, it would be a bit slower. Would require MMU though. ;)


Peter Heginbotham

Posts 156
09 Aug 2018 09:18


No No No, What is the point if you want the run older versions of windows or emulate an X86 processor then use a PC. There are loads of eumlation products out there which are much more andvance the PCTask or PCx like vmware, VirtualBox, DosBox. The world has moved on so much there is little point in this the cudos 20 years ago was good but now. There are better things for the Apollo Team to work on like AGA, 16bit sound, 080 improvements, vampire drivers etc


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3526
09 Aug 2018 09:28


Peter Heginbotham wrote:

    No No No, What is the point ...
   

   
Every development is good.
 
Please mind that the AMIGA world has several developer talents.
But developers have different skills.
 
Only very few have the experience to develop the 68080 core.
There are many other people with other good skills which could for example improve PC-Task.
   
Putting such effort down is not helping the community.
Please not put development ideas down!
   
Also imagine that if in the future there might be a 2 GHZ 68080 ASIC, then having a tuned x86 emulator will allow you to run a lot PC-Stuff very fast.
   



Kef Emzy

Posts 16
09 Aug 2018 10:41


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
   
  Also imagine that if in the future there might be a 2 GHZ 68080 ASIC, then having a tuned x86 emulator will allow you to run a lot PC-Stuff very fast.
   
 

I am imaging quite hard. Meanwhile a v4 standalone will do just fine!


Peter Heginbotham

Posts 156
09 Aug 2018 13:57


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Peter Heginbotham wrote:

    No No No, What is the point ...
   

   
  Every development is good.
 
  Please mind that the AMIGA world has several developer talents.
  But developers have different skills.
 
  Only very few have the experience to develop the 68080 core.
  There are many other people with other good skills which could for example improve PC-Task.
   
  Putting such effort down is not helping the community.
  Please not put development ideas down!
   
  Also imagine that if in the future there might be a 2 GHZ 68080 ASIC, then having a tuned x86 emulator will allow you to run a lot PC-Stuff very fast.
   
 

I'm not saving developemnt or the ideas are bad just the effort in this space has limit benefit for a small number of users. The improvements in to emulation should be looking at 68000 first like Shapeshifter\ Basilisk II or the darkside Atari :)

If i want to run x86 I have VMware Workstation and EXSi 6.5 at home  (Other virtualization products are avalible) which are much better than PCTask on the Amiga at running Windows and DosBox for Games.




Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3526
09 Aug 2018 15:17


Peter Heginbotham wrote:

  The improvements in to emulation should be looking at 68000 first like Shapeshifter\ Basilisk II or the darkside Atari :)
 

I fully agree with you that running MAC Software is great.
Actually the MAC runs very fast - much faster than the fastest MAC which ever existed.
The 68000 is not emulated on Shapeshifter.
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
09 Aug 2018 18:21


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

    Also imagine that if in the future there might be a 2 GHZ 68080 ASIC, then having a tuned x86 emulator will allow you to run a lot PC-Stuff very fast. 

 
  That will be a mighty day, especially if 1GHz P5 MMX could be emulated (MMX instructions could be easily JITed). I wonder what speeds Ataris and MacOS Classics would display. And that poor Sysinfo phone guy :-) Dont mind that Win/Mac guys will be in cloud, connected via full time VR.
 
  Its always good to have Amiga software development continued, whenever possible. Its sad Vampires existence isnt yet a good driver of motivation, hope standalone and v4 generation will quite change that, alongside core3.
 
 
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  The 68000 is not emulated on Shapeshifter.
   

 
  Could other "elements" of Mac 68k and AtariST (such as AtariST/E blitter) be included in v4 generation, so we can run it quite natively, even hardware banging stuff in Atari case?


Nixus Minimax

Posts 252
09 Aug 2018 18:37


There are Atari, Mac and PC type screenmodes in SAGA already to make emulation of those systems and porting of software easier. Apart from that, please stop asking to turn the Vampire into another MiST or fpgaarcade...


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 697
10 Aug 2018 14:19


Nixus Minimax wrote:

  There are Atari, Mac and PC type screenmodes in SAGA already to make emulation of those systems and porting of software easier. Apart from that, please stop asking to turn the Vampire into another MiST or fpgaarcade...
 

 
  No, its not. Myst approach is complete core reflash. From CPU and Screenmodes there are only few more elements left to have non-emulated compatibility. And that is just great and makes Vampire "King of 68k" not only Amiga. So, I wont stop. We ll see v4 FPGA limits, decision how to use the space, is not mine. I just see it coming more and more - why not to the (sweet) end? Saying that I never had Mac Classic or Atari, but I am aware of some great software and games on it. 68k native and comparable to DOS counterparts, we want be able to emulate fast any time soon.
 

m68k Linux, with updates done so far by Mac and Atari users, could be substitute  to x86 Linux to some extend, and best option beside AROS for native but modern m68k apps.

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