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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4183
03 Aug 2018 18:54


m rickan wrote:

Nooo... I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on the type of performance that could be attained through an optimized FPGA implementation of x86.

As there is none, what point is this question?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1428
03 Aug 2018 23:02


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  As there is none, what point is this question?
 

 
  There is some Verilog 486SX, but e.g. "hardware assisted PC Task/DOS Box" could wait some V10 Vampire.
 
  Verilog core
  EXTERNAL LINK 
There is 186 also
EXTERNAL LINK 
Ah, its so breathtaking to see those cores so beyond 080 >:-)


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4183
04 Aug 2018 05:59


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

   
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

      As there is none, what point is this question?
   

       
    There is some Verilog 486SX,
   

     
   
Yes there is this Verilog core.
This 486 core reaches ~ 4 Mips.
Apollo / Vamp is over 100 Mips ~ 25 times faster.

Using Apollo plus emulation with PC-Task on your Vamp,
will give you a _MUCH_ faster x86 then this 486 FPGA core.
   
   


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1428
04 Aug 2018 07:46


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Using Apollo plus emulation with PC-Task on your Vamp,
  will give you a _MUCH_ faster x86 then this 486 FPGA core   

Yup, I am all in for 200Mhz+ 080 when possible. That would make emulating 100Mhz+ 486 doable job even with no AMMX.



Mr-Z EdgeOfPanic

Posts 181
04 Aug 2018 07:57


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Using Apollo plus emulation with PC-Task on your Vamp,
  will give you a _MUCH_ faster x86 then this 486 FPGA core   
 

 
  Yup, I am all in for 200Mhz+ 080 when possible. That would make emulating 100Mhz+ 486 doable job even with no AMMX.
 

Me too but that will need a VERY expensive FPGA, so for the short term i do not see this happening/feasible.



Peter Heginbotham

Posts 165
04 Aug 2018 10:00


Mr-Z EdgeOfPanic wrote:

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

 
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

    Using Apollo plus emulation with PC-Task on your Vamp,
    will give you a _MUCH_ faster x86 then this 486 FPGA core   
 

 
  Yup, I am all in for 200Mhz+ 080 when possible. That would make emulating 100Mhz+ 486 doable job even with no AMMX.
 
 

Why ? This is nuts if i want a faster x86 emulation run it on a X86\x64 PC.
 
  Me too but that will need a VERY expensive FPGA, so for the short term i do not see this happening/feasible.
 





Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4183
04 Aug 2018 10:08


OK, lets take a step back and review our goal
 
Our goals are to revive 68K and AMIGA/ATARI.
 
Apollo 68080 is the world fastest and most advanced 68K core.
 
Using the VAMP the AMIGA has enough horse power to run AMIGA OS or ATARI OS super fast.
 
Also MAC OS runs super fast.
All MAC games run super smooth, and also using applications like Photoshop is very fast and makes a lot of fun.
 
 
The VAMP has enough horse power to also run a lot "foreign" games and Apps.
 
C-64 emulators allows running some C64 games for nostalgic fun
 
SCUMM-VM allows running all those Lucasarts adventures.
 
NEOGEO emulator allows to run top notch 2D arcade games
 
PC-TASK allows running a number of nice DOS games.
There are some real jewels amount those games - which even I enjoy playing sometimes again.
 
 
All these DOS/MAC/NEOGEO games can fine today for the Vamp users.

FPGA technology does continuously progress, this means if we polish these emulators now - also in the future the users will benefit from this.

I think this makes all sense and is all beneficial to revive AMIGA and ATARI and 68k.


A1200 Coder

Posts 45
04 Aug 2018 14:26


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  B) APOLLO is technically miles more advanced than a 486.
  And Apollo is clock by clock much much more powerful.
  Lets as rough estimate say Apollo is 3 times faster than a 80MHz 486

Even a 68040 is clearly faster than a 486 at same clock speed. Dhrystone benchmarks for 68040 give 30-50% better score and 68040 FPU is around 3x faster than 486 FPU. The reason why 68040 is faster is that is has more CPU registers, a more efficient cache, and a deeper 6 stage pipeline. So the V4 Vampire should be maybe 7-8 times faster than a 80 MHz 486.


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 470
04 Aug 2018 19:21


Vampire 500 Booting Windows 98 (Amiga 500).

EXTERNAL LINK


Szyk Cech

Posts 190
04 Aug 2018 19:30


Is this real?!? There wasn't 80486 with MMX!!!


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 470
04 Aug 2018 19:45


That seems to be how Win98 detects PC-task4.4. Yes this is a real, not a DPaint trick.


Mr Niding

Posts 388
04 Aug 2018 20:47


Out of curiosity;

Can Firefox be used in Windows 98? Firefox still fully supports Windows XP, which I use for some legacy programs.

And I know, its more a curiosity, since my wintel machine will be able to run both XP and/or 98 +Firefox better than Vampire ever will (?) :)


Lord Aga
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 94
04 Aug 2018 21:37


Genuine Intel :)))


Andrew Miller

Posts 205
04 Aug 2018 21:50


Simo Koivukoski wrote:

Vampire 500 Booting Windows 98 (Amiga 500).
 
 
 
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Does it actually run at a decent speed?


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 470
04 Aug 2018 22:05


Andrew Miller wrote:
Does it actually run at a decent speed?

It feels like a 68k AROS.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1428
04 Aug 2018 23:10


Simo Koivukoski wrote:

   

   
    Could you please try WIN2000 if it can run on PC Task max specs?
    Win2000 could run Firefox,Libre or Office 2003 >:-)
 
  Sidenote: Sadly, it needs Pentium.
 
  Hmmm ... Maybe some 486 small distro Linux WITH Libre 3.x and some Firefox?
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  Maybe some modified i486 ReactOS?
  EXTERNAL LINK


Nixus Minimax

Posts 342
05 Aug 2018 10:21


Simo Koivukoski wrote:

Andrew Miller wrote:
Does it actually run at a decent speed?

  It feels like a 68k AROS.
 

A 68k without Vampire graphics driver, I suppose... :)


M Rickan

Posts 170
05 Aug 2018 18:38


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  As there is none, what point is this question?

It's merely interest in the state of FPGA emulation.

There are a few hybrid solutions with x86 chips on the same board so my guess is that if you really need the performance, you're better off including the CPU and adding the interfacing.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1428
06 Aug 2018 05:39


m rickan wrote:

  There are a few hybrid solutions with x86 chips on the same board so my guess is that if you really need the performance, you're better off including the CPU and adding the interfacing.
 

 
  Well, yes.Some cheapest AMD Geode or similar ex-Cyrix could do the needed magic and it would be nice to see DOS/Windows app within AmigaOS like SideCar was included in Amiga 1000 world premiere.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 378
06 Aug 2018 06:00



m rickan wrote:

    There are a few hybrid solutions with x86 chips on the same board so my guess is that if you really need the performance, you're better off including the CPU and adding the interfacing.
 

That would be what is known as an x86 motherboard.
 
Why waste your time and money on some sort of Franken-puter x86/FPGA hybrid?  You can get an x86 motherboard for less than $30 if you look around and an AMD processor for about the same amount.  Here's one for a whopping $18

EXTERNAL LINK 
I'd prefer that the author of PC-Task release an update that's been re-compiled for AMMX and has SoundBlaster support than for some mess of hardware that has to be hung off the side of my Vampire like a SideCar.  And if I REALLY need modern speeds I'll just use one of my x86_64 systems already on hand.


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