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Questions and Answers for AROS AMIGA OS

Modern Browser for ApolloOS Based On Webkit ?page  1 2 3 

Steffen Häuser

Posts 60
06 Feb 2023 10:24


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

   
  Also we need to mind that modern browser are huge beasts and their developer are used to use gigabytes of memory so they are bloated and demanding in resources. So porting such beast will result and something very slow and big.  ... I think they will run not fast on any Amiga.
   

Personally (though on Amiga x1000, not on Vampire) my experience is that they are really bloated - but the bloat is mostly starting them up. Once (ages later ^^^) the browser actually started up it runs quite decent (at least Odyssey, did you check if maybe an Odyssey port might be an option for your platform ?)

Still, if possible for the webpage I want to browse, and I want to browse it on my Amiga I usually prefer AWeb - that thing is so damned fast. But as you said of course it lacks a lot and is limited as to the pages supported. If something does not run there either I run it on my PC or I launch Odyssey on the Amiga (yawn, ages later...).

I guess the big problem is these "modern browsers" include SO MUCH optional stuff which has to be started (which also bloats the filesize of the executables).


Nick Fellows

Posts 177
07 Feb 2023 15:13


It sounds like a lot of the problems are down to lack of ram.
Even the Vampire V4's 512mb isnt going to cut the mustard and you cant rely on content creators to do the right thing and ensure their assets are appropriately resized and optimised for low power machines.

Do we have fast json encode / decode routines for Amiga OS ?
Write apps to talk to JSON API's, to perform CRUD operations to
talk to our favourite websites.

What about curl ? do we have that ? curl can be scripted.

These are the kinds of building blocks we need to build these apps.
And this is the way to put the amiga back in control of how to render assets outside of a HTML DOM we cant control.

Updates to the FPGA hardware maybe could include updates or improvements to accelerate encryption / decryption or compression  could also help. But thats not my call.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6246
08 Feb 2023 09:13


nick fellows wrote:

Updates to the FPGA hardware maybe could include updates or improvements to accelerate encryption / decryption or compression  could also help. But thats not my call.

 
In theory yes, but actually I do not see that we have a bottleneck
  there.
 
The network speed of our system is very good for Amiga.
Yes SSL decryption will add some overhead - but this is not critical.
 
You can surf today websites on AMIGA using SSL with no problem.
 
Our older Amiga browsers have compatibility limitations.
And them badly supporting new HTML features - does limit the usability of some websites.
 
Of course some websites like Aminet or Apollo-Core - work perfectly
But some others don't.

 
There are several options for mitigating this.
One option is surfing over a Proxy with "converts" the HTML to a lower version. This is trick that was used by people before.
This has of course also some limitations.
 
Latest browsers like Firefox are resource eaters.
They easily use huge amounts of CPU and memory.
With effort compile them and running them on ApolloOS could be possible but for sure the surfing will be really slow. With a not good user experience maybe this effort is not reasonable to do.
 


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
21 Aug 2023 12:55


i use amifox works fine


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6246
21 Aug 2023 13:33


salvatore abbate wrote:

i use amifox works fine

Which is not a real browser but using the proxy concept.


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
21 Aug 2023 13:37


yes but there is a reality alternative for moment


Eddie Cejvan

Posts 28
22 Aug 2023 03:26


When it comes to WebKit-based browsers on 68k systems, there is always going to be some sort of trade-off, even on the highly capable Apollo 080 with AMMX.

While I do not necessarily speak for everyone, I'd venture that most users would sacrifice performance for functionality. The key is to be able to fulfill the workflow end-to-end. The model to follow should be the Experimental Web Browser on the Amazon Kindle.

As far as images are concerned, a downscaler routine would have to be implemented to render lower fidelity image assets in the browser.

To get around RAM limitations for larger pages, a session/page cache could be kept on disk, and deleted after a configurable number of hours.




Nick Fellows

Posts 177
22 Aug 2023 17:53


"The model to follow should be the Experimental Web Browser on the Amazon Kindle."

Yes , lets model it on an experimental browser that resides in a walled garden and closed ecosystem. Sounds like something we should all strive for.




Eddie Cejvan

Posts 28
23 Aug 2023 04:04


Reasonable people will understand what I mean.




Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
24 Aug 2023 14:46


aweb new ssl upgrade there is also 080 executable
 
EXTERNAL LINK 
EXTERNAL LINK


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
26 Aug 2023 12:25


sometimes i have problems with ibrowse it also devalidated a partition so i use it very little as an alternative i use amifox too bad it does not remember credentials but it is a good alternative, i have tried aweb but maybe uses reaction it would be nice to implement it and open and again it is maintained


Sean Sk

Posts 488
26 Aug 2023 23:42


IBrowse does not "devalidate" partitions, whatever the hell that means. If you're having issues with your partitions then there is a problem with your setup.


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
27 Aug 2023 03:14


I was downloading a file with ibrowse when the partition became corrupted my setup is the default one with ApolloOS


Sean Sk

Posts 488
27 Aug 2023 07:50


Check your MaxTransfer settings for your partitions using HDToolbox. They should be set to 0x1FE00.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6246
27 Aug 2023 09:58


general comments:
 
On Amiga is very important to watch a few points
- you have to doublecheck filesystem size limitations
    Please make sure that you partition is NOT bigger than what the filesystem that you use supports.
 
- You have to check that MAX_TRANSFER value is set correctly on each partition .. If MAX_TRANSFER set to high bad things will randomly happen
 
- When you surf the internet there might be writes on disk.
    For example JPEG decoder might do writes to a TMP file, or the browser might store cookies, or write to caches which could be on disk. Resetting during active disk writes can leave your filesystem in an invalite /broken state. Some filesystem will delay writes...
You have to be warned about PFS very long write delay here. PFS might delay writes for several like e.g 5 seconds. This means you need to take care to not reset/power off  and not crash 5 seconds after you surfed the internet.
 


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
27 Aug 2023 12:20


i undeerstand gunnar thanks, with regard to ibrowse I currently download the files to the SD card so I have no problems in case something happens but sometimes it works fine and sometimes it gives problems patience I reset the vampire


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
05 Sep 2023 18:13


i moved the ibrowse folder to the sd card now everything works before i had several problems many times it would freeze i also bought the key


John William

Posts 566
05 Sep 2023 20:18


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

general comments:
 
  On Amiga is very important to watch a few points
  - you have to doublecheck filesystem size limitations
    Please make sure that you partition is NOT bigger than what the filesystem that you use supports.

What would happen if you exceed it supported limited and browse then?


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
06 Sep 2023 12:10


i did not change the default partitions on apolloos but i had problems even when transferring files with dopus everything crashes and there is a risk of creating errors in the filesystem, i managed to overcome the problem by transferring the apps i need to sdcard


Salvatore Abbate

Posts 41
17 Sep 2023 23:01


salvatore abbate wrote:

aweb new ssl upgrade there is also 080 executable
   
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

works fine under 3.1, 3.9


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