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Apollo 68080 - ASIC - How Much Would It Cost?page  1 2 

Fernando Pereira

Posts 68
22 Aug 2017 11:35


Out of pure curiosity:
 
  If the Apollo Core 68080 would to be manufactured as ASIC, how much would it cost (considering the target market)?

[Edit]
(Cost aimed at the consumer, not cost to manufacture it)
 
 


Marlon Beijer

Posts 160
22 Aug 2017 12:10


Fernando Pereira wrote:

Out of pure curiosity:
 
  If the Apollo Core 68080 would to be manufactured as ASIC, how much would it cost (considering the target market)?
 
  [Edit]
  (Cost aimed at the consumer, not cost to manufacture it)
 
 

Cost for consumers would have to be something that would cover the costs of manufacturing. You'll only get guesstimates at best.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4452
22 Aug 2017 12:16


Fernando Pereira wrote:

Out of pure curiosity:
 
If the Apollo Core 68080 would to be manufactured as ASIC, how much would it cost (considering the target market)?
 
(Cost aimed at the consumer, not cost to manufacture it)

20 bucks


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
22 Aug 2017 12:49


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Fernando Pereira wrote:

  Out of pure curiosity:
   
  If the Apollo Core 68080 would to be manufactured as ASIC, how much would it cost (considering the target market)?
 
  (Cost aimed at the consumer, not cost to manufacture it)
 

 
  20 bucks

Nice, full  East European style. Add 100$ for MOBO and integrated SAGA,SATA,USB,DDR5 etc. and I am in.

We just need a wealthy donor to sponsor production. What about Mr. Dick? I meant Duck. Good old Scrudges.



Fernando Pereira

Posts 68
22 Aug 2017 12:50


Marlon Beijer wrote:

 
Fernando Pereira wrote:

    Out of pure curiosity:
     
      If the Apollo Core 68080 would to be manufactured as ASIC, how much would it cost (considering the target market)?
   
    [Edit]
    (Cost aimed at the consumer, not cost to manufacture it)
     
     
   

    Cost for consumers would have to be something that would cover the costs of manufacturing. You'll only get guesstimates at best.
 

 
  Perhaps I was not clear. I'm talking about the final cost the consumer would pay, which naturally would include the manufacturing cost. I'm not asking for a precise value but a loose guess. It's just a curiosity; not something I will include in the Wikipedia.
 
  In other words, if a Vampire sells at 150 how much would its ASIC version?


Michal Warzecha

Posts 209
22 Aug 2017 13:03


Probably ~ 100000$ :)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
22 Aug 2017 13:26


Michal Warzecha wrote:

Probably ~ 100000$ :)

Lets keep up with PA Semi prices. North of 1800 GBP just for the board :-)


Martin Soerensen

Posts 231
22 Aug 2017 13:51


Fernando Pereira wrote:
In other words, if a Vampire sells at 150 how much would its ASIC version?

It depends completely on the volume. It is not uncommon for an ASIC  with packaging to cost around 1 mil. USD including test runs, qualification, test jigs etc. so if we make 10000 pcs of those, then each IC would cost 100 USD. This is the raw cost for the ASIC alone and then you need to add the PCB, remaining components, assembly, testing, yield loss, distribution etc.. Since 10000 is probably a quite optimistic volume for this kind of product, the price should be much higher to cover that since nobody wants to pay for having 5k ICs sitting in storage..


Fernando Pereira

Posts 68
22 Aug 2017 14:01


Martin Soerensen wrote:

 
Fernando Pereira wrote:
In other words, if a Vampire sells at 150 how much would its ASIC version?
 

  It depends completely on the volume. It is not uncommon for an ASIC  with packaging to cost around 1 mil. USD including test runs, qualification, test jigs etc. so if we make 10000 pcs of those, then each IC would cost 100 USD. This is the raw cost for the ASIC alone and then you need to add the PCB, remaining components, assembly, testing, yield loss, distribution etc.. Since 10000 is probably a quite optimistic volume for this kind of product, the price should be much higher to cover that since nobody wants to pay for having 5k ICs sitting in storage..
 

 
  The target market (volume) would be the same as of the FGPA version I guess. But yeah, I imagine it to be insanely expensive. I'm just curious of how much that would be.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4452
22 Aug 2017 14:14


Fernando Pereira wrote:

Perhaps I was not clear. I'm talking about the final cost the consumer would pay, which naturally would include the manufacturing cost. I'm not asking for a precise value but a loose guess. It's just a curiosity; not something I will include in the Wikipedia.
   
In other words, if a Vampire sells at 150 how much would its ASIC version?

With reasonable volume the ASIC version could be same price or less than the FPGA version.




Fernando Pereira

Posts 68
22 Aug 2017 16:49


@Gunnar
 
  WOW! I really thought it would be quite more expensive. Is there any possibility of this ever coming true?
   
    Even if it was 500, I would still buy it; I believe it would be much faster than the fastest of the high-end FGPA board, which in contrast would be much more expensive. Am I wrong?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
22 Aug 2017 17:35


Fernando Pereira wrote:

@Gunnar
   
    Even if it was 500, I would still buy it; I believe it would be much faster than the fastest of the high-end FGPA board, which in contrast would be much more expensive. Am I wrong?

Quite good estimation. Only problem is that for ASIC production you have to speak numbers and prepay them.

To make it possible, its best to buy what is offered now.


Fernando Pereira

Posts 68
22 Aug 2017 17:52


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

     
Fernando Pereira wrote:

      @Gunnar
         
          Even if it was 500, I would still buy it; I believe it would be much faster than the fastest of the high-end FGPA board, which in contrast would be much more expensive. Am I wrong?
     

     
      Quite good estimation. Only problem is that for ASIC production you have to speak numbers and prepay them.
     
      To make it possible, its best to buy what is offered now.
     

     
      Absolutely, and I do plan to get the Vampire Standalone model. I can't wait to have my Amiga back! I used Amiga until 2000 but sadly I had to put it aside. Recently, I tried to turn it on: a A1200Tower + PPC603e@210Mhz + 68060@50mhz + BVision but it's dead. :( So I have no way of telling if the Blizzard cards are working. I would like to sell the latter components but how can I do it if I cannot test them? (Feeling frustrated)
     


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
22 Aug 2017 18:06


Fernando Pereira wrote:

      Absolutely, and I do plan to get the Vampire Standalone model. I can't wait to have my Amiga back! I used Amiga until 2000 but sadly I had to put it aside. Recently, I tried to turn it on: a A1200Tower + PPC603e@210Mhz + 68060@50mhz + BVision but it's dead. :( So I have no way of telling if the Blizzard cards are working. I would like to sell the latter components but how can I do it if I cannot test them? (Feeling frustrated)

Sorry for quite nice old monster card :-( Now when  Phase 5 is back, maybe you could test them? :-)

Hope there will be a lot of Revamped Amigas, Standalone Vampires and if possible later in life, real big mobos with improved CPUs and chipsets worth of stoning and carving.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4452
22 Aug 2017 18:15


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Quite good estimation. Only problem is that for ASIC production you have to speak numbers and prepay them.
 
To make it possible, its best to buy what is offered now.

You are correct.

Lets be clear about this.

For ASIC production we need to have literally a million $.
And there needs to be a market to sell 50,000 units.

This can be a dream - to which we can all together work.
And then AMIGA would be really revived.

But for now we need to ride the FPGA horse.

The Vampire already kick ass.
The Vampire dances circles around any other 68K including 68060.
And if you use AMMX then the Vampire dances also circles around all 603 / 604 PowerPC cards.



John William

Posts 459
22 Aug 2017 18:27


EEEEEEEEeeeeeeeee..........


Kresimir Lukin

Posts 65
22 Aug 2017 18:42


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  Quite good estimation. Only problem is that for ASIC production you have to speak numbers and prepay them.
 
  To make it possible, its best to buy what is offered now.
 

 
  You are correct.
 
 
  Lets be clear about this.
 
  For ASIC production we need to have literally a million $.
  And there needs to be a market to sell 50,000 units.
 
  This can be a dream - to which we can all together work.
  And then AMIGA would be really revived.
 
  But for now we need to ride the FPGA horse.
 
  The Vampire already kick ass.
  The Vampire dances circles around any other 68K including 68060.
  And if you use AMMX then the Vampire dances also circles around all 603 / 604 PowerPC cards.
 

I can't wait for standalone,and for 1200 card
I have plan to take both
In my opinion future of Amiga is Apollo core and Aros



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
22 Aug 2017 19:24


Kresimir Lukin wrote:

  I can't wait for standalone,and for 1200 card
  I have plan to take both
  In my opinion future of Amiga is Apollo core and Aros

I am glad for more Vampires pon battlefield, especially inna di area :-)

Maybe there is hope for Voodo fora and even reseller unit to come alive.

Dont take this wrong -  All Boing Bags and Chequered shapes included are protected trademark of Republic of Croatia :-)

Note: Croatian insignia and coat of arms include Amiga like red chequered fields.


David Wright

Posts 348
22 Aug 2017 19:47


You have a point with Croatia. I wonder if Trevor has a vacation home there :)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
22 Aug 2017 20:45


David Wright wrote:

You have a point with Croatia. I wonder if Trevor has a vacation home there :)

I can recommend Dubrovnik. And buying some more chequered staff in Split.

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