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Information to Amikitpage  1 2 3 4 5 

Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1916/ 1
22 Dec 2020 10:58


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
     
  Amikit sold ready to use CF for $98 to Vampire owner - knowing in advance that these CF will not boot.
   

As far as I know he did not use AROS ROM to be able to detect the issue, with AmigaOS like ability it works fine. As soon as problem arises, he tried to open support page.

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
  Amikit told the unhappy customers this is the fault of Aros.
  "As Aros could would not be able to support FAT partitions." <- which is simply not true
   

Exponation is partial, but somewhat true. Problem is due to AROS ROM. He is not an AROS, but AmigaOS expert with a lot of beta testers, including V4SA owners.

Surely, hereby, you explained problem way more in details.
 
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
  Amikit also emailed the unhappy customers to contact the Apollo-Team and ask there for a fix to Aros so that Aros support FAT or they shall ask for a pirate copy of OS3.
   

Surely, flashing back to AmigaOS ROM or fixing AROS would be also the solution, so practically he offered one, as he cannot alone provide AmigaOS ROM or fix AROS one. So its a try of support. I am sure if he at the time was aware how to manually over ride that, he would offer that as support page.

So it looks to me like quick try to get the solution. Sorry if that caused unneeded  requests from Apollo team side, but some kind of similar trouble could also be anticipated from Apollo team side and some solution offered to users and-or AmiKit-Jan.

Last one OR they shall ask for a pirate copy of OS3, I dont get. In AmiKit, its up to user to provide source of OS files, like I do with my old OS 3.5 disc now ISO image and LHA archive.

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
  How would you call this behavior?

Trying to handle situation not created by oneself, with limited resources, to the best of ones knowledge.

Better communication with those who support Vampire like AmiKit, on such tangibile changes is advised.

Its always better to look what one can improve with himself, then to purely blame other side. That goes for Jan. He could handle the situation by providing V4 cards or replace one if customer has trouble, but seems tone of this thread publicly blaming him, has really put him down.

The way I see it, purely COMMUNICATION PROBLEM turned to jepardise a very nice Vampire related product.

Please, please, do your best to have as little of such in the future. Thats a honest advice.

I like you people being great coders and developers (something I cannot do as user) but try to improve communication skills and timing of it, or appoint someone who is skilled to handle it.

Its down to human errors, and too big words, AmiKit as it is, with little hustle now, works.



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
22 Dec 2020 11:20


I fully agree that better communication is always better.
   
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Trying to handle situation not created by oneself, with limited resources, to the best of ones knowledge.

   
I think the chain of events was completely different.
 
1) When Amikit understood that the AROS kick can fully support FAT partitions but just not his layout, then AMIKIT made it clear to us that he is NOT his problem and that he is NOT interested in correcting this.
   
2) Amikit still continued to sell the non working CF to V4 owners.
 
3) And then he posted knowingly wrong excuse that AROS would not support FAT.
   
 
This looks neither honest nor correct to the people.


Andrew Miller

Posts 352
22 Dec 2020 11:23


Sorry to jump in, but its a partition issue, not an AROS issue. Its been quite extensively explained.


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1916/ 1
22 Dec 2020 11:39


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  This looks neither honest nor correct to the people.
 

 
  If that was the timeline, then surely could be handled better.
 
  I can understand that he did "one size fits them all" card, that works fine on V2 and AmigaOS ROM, and similarly on V4 apart from booting OR with old KS. This was easy way, but not always the best. Since files are the same.
 
 
Andrew Miller wrote:

  Sorry to jump in, but its a partition issue, not an AROS issue. Its been quite extensively explained.
 

 
  True, but at other point of view, if AROS ROM could pick partition to boot from or look for AmigaOS partition, it would also not exist.
 
  And thats all from me. Hope situation will be resolved in time and Vampire support in AmiKit will continue.


Smartroad 78

Posts 116
22 Dec 2020 11:40


Andrew Miller wrote:

Sorry to jump in, but its a partition issue, not an AROS issue. Its been quite extensively explained.

But my understanding is that AROS Kick doesn't have the early boot menu to pick a partition to boot from?


James Husted
(Needs Verification)
Posts 81/ 3
22 Dec 2020 11:47


smartroad 78 wrote:

Andrew Miller wrote:

  Sorry to jump in, but its a partition issue, not an AROS issue. Its been quite extensively explained.
 

 
  But my understanding is that AROS Kick doesn't have the early boot menu to pick a partition to boot from?

of course it does.


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1916/ 1
22 Dec 2020 11:55


James Husted wrote:

  of course it does.

Can it be used to pick the bootable AmigaOS card partition and thus override the problem, too? Or booting scheme on card is made so AOS partition is not bootable?


James Husted
(Needs Verification)
Posts 81/ 3
22 Dec 2020 11:58


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

James Husted wrote:

  of course it does.
 

 
  Can it be used to pick the bootable AmigaOS card partition and thus override the problem, too? Or booting scheme on card is made so AOS partition is not bootable?

This I have no idea because I wont pay for such a thing, I have paid for Amiga OS lots in the past why should I pay again? therefor have no Amikit card to test.



Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1916/ 1
22 Dec 2020 12:02


James Husted wrote:

  This I have no idea because I wont pay for such a thing, I have paid for Amiga OS lots in the past why should I pay again? therefor have no Amikit card to test.
 

 
  You are not paying for AmigaOS but for all the extra files and script tested, collected and adding tons of additional functionality to it. There are special themes and preferences built on top to make some options like res-changes, theme changes, updates that do not exist otherwise.
 
  Example is that you get a lot of keyfiles for small but very important utilities (and some games) that used to cost on their own, some are now exclusive to AmiKit and not available otherwise.
 
  Its like you really pimped out OS 3.x for several years, but at once. Just to clear that out.
 


James Husted
(Needs Verification)
Posts 81/ 3
22 Dec 2020 12:03


Thank you but Coffin has that for free.


Andrew Miller

Posts 352
22 Dec 2020 12:12


I was considering amikit for my v1200 but now I'll just stick with ApolloOS. Less hassle and less cost (ie: free)


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 690
22 Dec 2020 12:18


@Vojin Vidanovic

You are a big Amikit-Fan it seems... people have to decide themselves if it is worth the money (for them) or not

I do not comment that...

The problem is he sells expensive cards promising it runs on V4 knowing it not does. That is what is critisized,,, whoever is responsible is not important in this case. Aros Roms are default for most V4 so as long he sells it for V4 he is responsible that this is the case. He is making lots of money with it so he is responsible for it like any other commercial vendor too


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 690
22 Dec 2020 12:19


good decision ;)


Bartek Kuchta

Posts 46
22 Dec 2020 16:10


@Vojin Vidanovic

Actually Olaf has contributed a lot to the OS side in the past decade with his AROS Vision and did not charge people for that.
 
Besides Olaf's amazing work was used in many other distros like Icaros Desktop or Caffeine also free of charge.
 
Thank you, Olaf!
 
 


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 690
22 Dec 2020 16:25


thanks Bartek


Vojin Vidanovic
(Needs Verification)
Posts 1916/ 1
22 Dec 2020 16:29


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  @Vojin Vidanovic
    You are a big Amikit-Fan it seems... people have to decide themselves if it is worth the money (for them) or not
   

 
  Surely, it has been long around, and in my eyes preserved the AmigaOS feel in darkest hours. I used AmiKit 8 and XE extensively and own a Vampire card awaiting next year V4SA or V1200 and A1200 purchase.
   
 
Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

    The problem is he sells expensive cards promising it runs on V4 knowing it not does. That is what is critisized,,, whoever is responsible is not important in this case. Aros Roms are default for most V4 so as long he sells it for V4 he is responsible that this is the case. He is making lots of money with it so he is responsible for it like any other commercial vendor too
 

 
  No longer he claims its V4 compatible. And it really was up to some point. Yes, I agree he can make a replacement card for V4SA users and ship it to anyone complaining or provide LZX archive as substitute. I am quite sure he would do second to any dissatisfied customer.
  It seems AROS ROM was not default when he received his, and I assume that is half of trouble why he did not anticipate his error.
 
  I suspect that with Coffin and ApolloOS being free he is not really making a lot of money (in total, not per copy. I assume AmkiKit XE for WinLinMacOS is his main source of revenue). Price set high (lower to existing amikit customers) is result of extensive testing and year or two of concentrated effort to do it, with some newer Vampire related update tool, written from scratch. It does make him less competitive, for sure.
 
  Kudos for AROS Vision as best AROS distro out there. To each for its own merits, including ApolloOS and Coffin builders and maintainers.
 
  And that is all about it.


Robert Downs

Posts 31
22 Dec 2020 16:52


"promising it runs on V4 knowing it not does"

This is not true.  This was not a problem with Core 7383 and was not a problem until later cores.  Sale of his V4SA AmiKit started when 7383 was the standard.  While AmiKit will continue to support users of V4SA with R4 and older cores, newer cores will not be supported because core changes broke what had worked previously.  The removal of kicking from SD (dumb decision), and this strange FAT behavior, effectively eliminated a turn-key solution for the distribution of a product that does not break "laws", but I digress.

"whoever is responsible is not important in this case"
This is not true.  Whoever is responsible is damaging the Amiga community.

"He is making lots of money with it"
You assume to much and confuse opinion with objectivity.

Why cannot the ability to kick a rom named kick.rom from SD?  Why was that excellent feature removed?

 


James Husted
(Needs Verification)
Posts 81/ 3
22 Dec 2020 17:52


Robert Downs wrote:

"promising it runs on V4 knowing it not does"
 
  This is not true.  This was not a problem with Core 7383 and was not a problem until later cores.  Sale of his V4SA AmiKit started when 7383 was the standard.  While AmiKit will continue to support users of V4SA with R4 and older cores, newer cores will not be supported because core changes broke what had worked previously.  The removal of kicking from SD (dumb decision), and this strange FAT behavior, effectively eliminated a turn-key solution for the distribution of a product that does not break "laws", but I digress.
 
  "whoever is responsible is not important in this case"
  This is not true.  Whoever is responsible is damaging the Amiga community.
 
  "He is making lots of money with it"
  You assume to much and confuse opinion with objectivity.
 
  Why cannot the ability to kick a rom named kick.rom from SD?  Why was that excellent feature removed?
 
 

because there are already many ways to soft kick and it is my understanding this was always a dev feature.



Jakub H.

Posts 39
22 Dec 2020 19:59


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

    @Vojin Vidanovic
    You are a big Amikit-Fan it seems... people have to decide themselves if it is worth the money (for them) or not
   

   
    Surely, it has been long around, and in my eyes preserved the AmigaOS feel in darkest hours. I used AmiKit 8 and XE extensively and own a Vampire card awaiting next year V4SA or V1200 and A1200 purchase.
   
   
Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

    The problem is he sells expensive cards promising it runs on V4 knowing it not does. That is what is critisized,,, whoever is responsible is not important in this case. Aros Roms are default for most V4 so as long he sells it for V4 he is responsible that this is the case. He is making lots of money with it so he is responsible for it like any other commercial vendor too
   

   
    No longer he claims its V4 compatible. And it really was up to some point. Yes, I agree he can make a replacement card for V4SA users and ship it to anyone complaining or provide LZX archive as substitute. I am quite sure he would do second to any dissatisfied customer.
    It seems AROS ROM was not default when he received his, and I assume that is half of trouble why he did not anticipate his error.
   
    I suspect that with Coffin and ApolloOS being free he is not really making a lot of money (in total, not per copy. I assume AmkiKit XE for WinLinMacOS is his main source of revenue). Price set high (lower to existing amikit customers) is result of extensive testing and year or two of concentrated effort to do it, with some newer Vampire related update tool, written from scratch. It does make him less competitive, for sure.
   
    Kudos for AROS Vision as best AROS distro out there. To each for its own merits, including ApolloOS and Coffin builders and maintainers.
   
    And that is all about it.

Everyone who has purchased the CF version has the LZX version in the bak folder.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6207
22 Dec 2020 20:33


Robert Downs wrote:

Sale of his V4SA AmiKit started when 7383 was the standard.

And already Core Version 7100 did came with AROS Kick!
This was long before Amikit sales started.
   
   
Robert Downs wrote:

Why cannot the ability to kick a rom named kick.rom from SD?  Why was that excellent feature removed? 

1) Loading Kick from SDcard blocks the SDcard port and is a lot
slower than loading Kick from CF.
2) The 1st SDcard loader locked the system when a SDcard without a Rom was plugged in - and this confused many users - so they complained rightfully. The solution for this was the 2nd SDCard loader which needed human intervention (click) which made this process slow and added work.
3) Therefore the much more customer friendly solution would have been loading the kick from CF.
All this could have been developed already with core 7100.
 
Please help my understand, why are you against a solution which is better, faster and more user friendly?   

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