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Demo Scenepage  1 2 3 

NoXLar - DemoSceneLover

Posts 8
10 Oct 2020 15:33


just want to ask a serious question about Vampire and the demoscene, i know some parties have used vampire-amigas to show of demoes.

but, they just have been logical to use what was available at the party (my opinion)

what i wondering is, when we will see demoes that harnes the power of vampire as it's own category, and will it ever be accepted as a demo scene platform?  if yes, i bet alot of more vampires need to be sold to make vampire amigas to be accepted in it's own right. and this is being addressed by the hard working apollo dudes:)

my question is, when we will see the first vampire only demo?

all your vampire users, it's time for demo orgasms :)))

i expect nothing less than world dominance (off course)




Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 119
10 Oct 2020 17:39


I also LOVE the demoscene. I know that certain groups wont go beyond 060. How do i know ? I asked. Hopefully we will see Vampire demos in the future when the core has matured and more people get their hands on one.

What can we users do to help promote the Vampire ?


Tim Trepanier

Posts 109
10 Oct 2020 17:56


IMO:
I think the biggest thing holding back Vampire demos is a lack of documentation. The only demos i've seen are from team members testing aspects of the Vampire.

The team seems to understand the need for documentation but would rather spend all their time on further development. Finding someone else to write the documentation isn't very practical as only the team members know how to program the Vampire.

Perhaps if the team releases the source code for their demos/test software the community could at least get some insight into how to program the Vampire.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 671
10 Oct 2020 21:47


I do not think that documentation is the main problem. Vampire is a moving target with constant changes so which version (core) demos should be based on? Also there are different cards with different FPGAs that are different fast.
 
  The demo developers want to impress others by getting most from a defined and limited hardware. I doubt that the vampire is interesting to these devs.
 
  But besides from that... documentation is needed in any case


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1732
10 Oct 2020 21:55


The matter might self resolve in e.g. an year when core 12 plus gets mature as well as core 3, mainly offering two possibilities:

- Fast demos using 080-mmx and RTG or onboard ECS-AGA (RTG best for all Vamp comoatibility)
- Ability to exploit mature GOLD3-V4 SAGA features as bonus to 080-mmx

Both options might be attractive. I suppose after some additional time most of bugs will be corrected and features added, rolling FPGA updates to minor bigfixes.



Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 671
10 Oct 2020 22:02


if vampire is completed and no changes anymore this might change. At the moment I do not think.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4972
11 Oct 2020 07:20


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

Vampire is a moving target with constant changes

Actually this is a misconception.
I know that this "rumor" spins around but:
 
Lets us look at the Vampire 500, the Vampire 600 and Vampire 1200 which are today the most powerful Amiga Accelerators.
 
The 68080 CPU is the major power on these cards.
The 68080 CPU has not changes on them since years.
The AMMX instruction set is 100% documented.
 
The GFX system on the Vampire Accelerators RTG has not changed too.
And how to use and program RTG is well known on Amiga since the 90th.
 
So what you say is not true at all for any of the Vampire accelerators.
 


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 512
11 Oct 2020 08:00


If the Revision party organizers decides to have an 1200 with a v1200 as the running machine of the Amiga demo-compo instead of the old blizzard 060 many demogrups will aim for his specs for sure.
  It's just a decision that will change drastically the Amiga scene. Maybe donating a v1200 to Revision's organizers can be a good idea.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 671
11 Oct 2020 10:26


it is not important what is "true" from your point of view or what I think but what people in demoscene think. If you think I am wrong you can simply talk to demo sceners and ask them about it perhaps they become interested. Who knows


Aldrin O.

Posts 29
11 Oct 2020 10:36


I would be more interested on a V4 demoscene than a Vampire accelerator demoscene to be honest.

Was there any organized Vampire-exclusive comp? How about starting one to see if there is any interest.


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 512
11 Oct 2020 12:21


Aldrin O. wrote:

I would be more interested on a V4 demoscene than a Vampire accelerator demoscene to be honest.
 
  Was there any organized Vampire-exclusive comp? How about starting one to see if there is any interest.

Yes, but things needs to be feeded step by step. Having a v1200 as the Amiga demo-compo reference hardware is possible and will make a huge difference in performance (68080+AMMX+RTG)



Aldrin O.

Posts 29
11 Oct 2020 12:41


Stefano Briccolani wrote:

Aldrin O. wrote:

  I would be more interested on a V4 demoscene than a Vampire accelerator demoscene to be honest.
 
  Was there any organized Vampire-exclusive comp? How about starting one to see if there is any interest.
 

 
  Yes, but things needs to be feeded step by step. Having a v1200 as the Amiga demo-compo reference hardware is possible and will make a huge difference in performance (68080+AMMX+RTG)
 

Wouldn't the Amiga demoscene want the copper features of V4 though. I have a feeling they would not be interested on just RTG since copper is a huge part of Amiga, although they could just use native ignoring RTG, but who knows.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4972
11 Oct 2020 13:27


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  Vampire is a moving target with constant changes s
 

 
Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  it is not important what is "true" from your point of view or what I think but what people in demoscene think.
 

 
I think its fact that Vampire Accelerators are not a moving target.

The "moving target story" of Vampire Accelerators
is in my opinion just a fake-news posted by people not having ever coded on Vampire and not even owning a Vampire.
 
Its very easy to post "fake-news" about products you not even own.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 671
11 Oct 2020 14:05


no problem I will no longer post anything about vampire


Kamelito Loveless

Posts 124
11 Oct 2020 14:12


They did code for the C64 DTV so I guess it could be done for the Vampire too.
Maybe V4 as it brings new features like the C64 DTV does.
EXTERNAL LINK


Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 119
11 Oct 2020 17:18


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

no problem I will no longer post anything about vampire

Really ? Maybe he was´nt even talking to you. Dont be a child about it.


Mr Niding

Posts 451
11 Oct 2020 23:08


Olaf isnt wrong,regarding how some sceners view the Vampire, right or wrong.
 
Gunnar was the child in this thread tbh (no offence,since I love the Vampires I got, and respect the amazing work)
 
Britelite has explained his views repeatedly on aw.net, and while he hasnt fully rejected future developments, he seemed less than excited last time I asked him.
 
 


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4972
12 Oct 2020 07:36


Mr Niding wrote:

Gunnar was the child in this thread tbh   

   
I'm sorry that you feel this way.
But I think its our job to answer correctly here.
Please help me understand why you think that correcting wrong posts and busting myth is childish?
 
   
Some people like for example Matt Hey, or Thomas Richter post a lot fake-news about the Vampire.
But do you know that none of them has a Vampire or has ever coded on it?
You will find hundreds of posts of these people about Vampire - posts which are pure fiction.
 
 
I think its our responsibility to correct fake-news and to post correct information here.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4972
12 Oct 2020 08:03


Regarding the demo scene and Vamp.
There are already a few demos coded for Vamp.

In my experience there are two types of demo coders on Amiga.
Game and demo coders which want to do the most awesome game or demo ever on Amiga - those love the extra power of the 68080 CPU and the Vamp.
And demo coders which have invested years into developing a demo maker kit for Amiga which runs on a Windows PC. These coders not want to use anything else than what their kit can use and they are not interested in developing "better" software for Amiga. Their focus is using their Demo-maker-Kit.

 




Stefano Briccolani

Posts 512
12 Oct 2020 09:37


In my opininion the demo-compo machine is key factor here. If the party organizers decides to upgrade the Amiga demo compo machine to a v1200 in like two years we will have higher-specs demos (demos aiming for Warp's 100mhz 060 and demos aiming for full 080/Ammx specs). If the party organizers keep the old blizzard060 as the Amiga demo compo machine is pretty obvious no one will develop a Vampire (or higher spec) demo that can compete only on the wild compo togheter with other bizarre electronic experiments (if you ever watched a Revision's wild-compo you have an idea of what I mean).
  Having a v1200 as the Amiga compo machine doesn't means that automatically everyone have to update their tools. But the competitive nature of demoscene will slowly tend to up the specs for demos (more power, more wooow effects).. It would be a win-win situation.
 
 

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