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Vampire V4 Standalone - Details and Pricepage  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 

Chastanier Cclecle

Posts 7
02 Oct 2019 11:03


Hey guys, its just a little limitation of the current Vampire version. You juste have do make a choice when you launch an App:
- need to watch a 1080p movie ? Go for 1080p24hz screen mode
- need to play some very fast games ? Go for a 720p50hz screen mode

We are lucky that Amiga OS is designed to deal with multiple screenmode almost transparently. Maybe Vampire V6 will be capable of doing 1080p50Hz, but for the moment I think w should be happy with the current implementation.


Markus B

Posts 100
02 Oct 2019 11:36


Yes, that's right.
Movements at 24 FPS are shitty and can be easily observed in movies. That's why there are some directors trying to push into HFR: EXTERNAL LINK 
And the user experience of a Workbench running at 24 FPS will be noticable worse compared to 50 or 60 FPS.

So I wonder why this has not been a design goal of the V4SA. You have a powerful chipset with superb memory performance but still are not able to deliver an RTG setup of 1080p50/60.

But my initial question is now answered, I'd say. It's 720p60 then.


Markus B

Posts 100
02 Oct 2019 11:46


Out of curiosity, I've checked the upcoming Warp 560/1260 accelerators.
The RTG part is designed to deliver 1080p60.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
02 Oct 2019 12:37


Markus B wrote:

Out of curiosity, I've checked the upcoming Warp 560/1260 accelerators.
The RTG part is designed to deliver 1080p60.

 
Several post before was the question to you to do the simple math
how much MB/sec the simple copy of a video stream of 640x480 in 32bit is.
 
Please answer this question.
Then compare to what a 68060 can copy maximum.
 
You seem to be clever, I'm sure you have no problem
to then understand what I mean when I say that "printing 300 km/h" on the speedometer of your car - will not make it faster.


Roy Gillotti

Posts 350
02 Oct 2019 12:57


Many of the other solutions out there use a dedicated chip to scale a lower resolution to a HD output like 1080p60.
   
  From what I've seen of the Warp 560/1260 they offload specific graphical tasks to an ARM processor to achieve that performance at a higher resolution. I bet if you try to do anything with original Amiga software that doesn't use their special drivers at that resolution it would run at a crawl compared to the Vampire.


Markus B

Posts 100
02 Oct 2019 14:54


There is no need for more calculations. I know that feeding data for 1080p60 consumes a lot of bandwidth.

That's why I am referring to the Workbench itself where only some very few areas are updated anyway, so only a fraction of the bandwidth is needed.

I think I remember some previous discussion we had about it. The FPGA is not able to generate the needed pixelclock of appr. 125 MHz, right?
Would've been there a way to use an external device handling such pixelclock?


Simo Koivukoski
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 468
02 Oct 2019 16:07


If you need you can still use an external device. This scales any input to 1080p60. EXTERNAL LINK 




Ian Parsons

Posts 194
02 Oct 2019 22:27


It's not the pixel clock it's the data rate for each of the colour channels. IIRC there are about 10 bits on each channel per pixel. 2 million pixels x 60 FPS x 10 bits per channel is a rate of 1.2 billion bits per second on output pins.


Andy Hearn

Posts 254
03 Oct 2019 09:39


Sorry, i'm just gonna step in here a second,

8 bits red,
8 bits green,
8 bits blue,
8 bits alpha channel
equals 32bits total per pixel - 4 bytes,
then times resolution, times frequency. blah blah blah.
 
24bit colour is the same just without alphachannel, so 3 bytes per pixel - one per colour,
16bit can either be 5bits per colour with 1bit alpha, or one continuous non-defined colour pallet space,
15bit is usually 5bits per colour, or again, one continuous colour space.
8 bit is just one byte per pixel, so no real room for seperate colour channel definition.
 
10 bits per colour channel is for "HDR 10" and the start of the dolby vision spec allowing 10 to 16 bits per colour channel.
 
but doesn't take away from whatever is driving the display, be it a discrete graphics card, vampire FPGA, AGA chipset, needs the ram bandwidth from where ever the image is stored, to drive those data rates out the display port.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
03 Oct 2019 10:04


Ok guys lets go back to topic here.

If you want to talk more about 25/50 FPS lets us open its own thread for this and maybe lets start with how many hundreds of Amiga games are actually not 50FPS but 25FPS.

You will be surprised how many of them are / and you never knew this.




Ioannis Kampotas

Posts 9
09 Oct 2019 01:03


how well run games like turrican 1-3, and how well run 3d shooters like Alien Breed 3D 2 AGA on the SA with the current core?

I'm thinking about buying the SA on the Amiga 34, provided I get one.  and will aros run parallel to coffin?
  thank you


Roland Haslinger

Posts 1
09 Oct 2019 01:18


Sounds really interesting, i would be interested in one of them :)


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4169
09 Oct 2019 08:32


Ioannis Kampotas wrote:

how well run games like turrican 1-3, and how well run 3d shooters like Alien Breed 3D 2 AGA on the SA with the current core?

If you are an A34 way not visit us and play the games live?



Ioannis Kampotas

Posts 9
09 Oct 2019 14:49


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Ioannis Kampotas wrote:

  how well run games like turrican 1-3, and how well run 3d shooters like Alien Breed 3D 2 AGA on the SA with the current core?
 

 
  If you are an A34 way not visit us and play the games live?
 

this is gonna happen anyway.  ;)


Xan X-vision

Posts 29
09 Oct 2019 22:01


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Markus B wrote:

  Out of curiosity, I've checked the upcoming Warp 560/1260 accelerators.
  The RTG part is designed to deliver 1080p60.
 

 
  Several post before was the question to you to do the simple math
  how much MB/sec the simple copy of a video stream of 640x480 in 32bit is.
 
  Please answer this question.
  Then compare to what a 68060 can copy maximum.
 
  You seem to be clever, I'm sure you have no problem
  to then understand what I mean when I say that "printing 300 km/h" on the speedometer of your car - will not make it faster.

This is very different depending on the video codec used, till the point that a regular Full HD movie can be compressed to a 2GB (and even less) video file in H.265, so it is more a question of multimedia capabilities of the CPU (video decompression).

I suppose the 68080 can't decode a Full HD movie by raw power, but: is it possible that the graphic driver would be able to do it?


Nikos Tomatsidis

Posts 45
09 Oct 2019 22:29


1080P on Vampire, 060 or whatever. Are you funny?
    Graphic driver?? Vampire does not have dedicated GPU.
   
    Don't confuse Vampire with modern computers. It is new Amiga hardware that is the fastest 68k Amiga ever.
    Be happy and buy it for that. Play old and new game releases and play with classic software and run nice scene productions.
    The price is cheaper than any 060 card.
    Most stream videos these days anyway. Even that will not be possible or safe on 68k Amiga OS.
    Use your phone or TV for that ;)


Marian Nowicki

Posts 17
12 Oct 2019 15:57


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
  Lets look at your game example.
  I think you are a little too optimistic what Amiga can do.
  Even 2 GHz Amigas can not do this.
 
 
  And lets us do some simple math to understand what we talk about here:
 
  1280x720 screenmode at 32bit ==  3.5 MB per frame
  To reach 60 FPS you need a memory copy bandwith of 210 MB/s read and 210 MB/s write.
 
  Let us compare what memory bandwidth a normal AMIGA with Zorro2 Bus has. An AMIGA with Zorro2 bus can best case reach 3.5 MB/s.
 
  No AMIGA (even including all PPC AMIGA) can reach the value of 210 MB/sec memcopy to GFX card.
 
  In fact the Vampire is the only AMIGA that can reach this copy value.

Amiga 500 1,16 GHz (Sam460 based) reach 261 MB/Sec.

EXTERNAL LINK 
Of course nobody will render graphics in something like DOOM by cpu. Everybody will be using 3D hardware.




Ioannis Kampotas

Posts 9
12 Oct 2019 21:52


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

Ioannis Kampotas wrote:

  how well run games like turrican 1-3, and how well run 3d shooters like Alien Breed 3D 2 AGA on the SA with the current core?
 

 
  If you are an A34 way not visit us and play the games live?
 

is there a private message function here? Please check a1k, when you have time. thank you


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1423
13 Oct 2019 15:31


Renaud Schweingruber wrote:

     
  Price of that special A34 bundle is 549
For A34, a special bundle will be made available with free "give-aways" add-ons like compatible Mouse, compatible Keyboard, CF-Adapter a 32GB CF card and an USB Blaster. Later, resellers will have the opportunity to sell their own bundles.

Turned True.
Amedia case+board EXTERNAL LINK 
is 589e, no CF card, no kb, mouse and usb blaster (surely can be purchased separately)

So happy purchase to early buyers!


Markus B

Posts 100
14 Oct 2019 17:22


@Gunnar

Did you have a chance to check with the Warp guys during the event how they solved their output to be 1080p60?

Furthermore the price tag of 500 w/o CPU for the Warp products proves that 550 for the V4SA is ok for the remaining Amiga market today. ;-)

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